One thing I don't like about the game...

[PZ]

... is the races part.  While they were optional, they were OK for me because I could just avoid them, but now in order to progress, I need to accomplish 4 races.  Now, I realize that most folks playing will like the racing aspect, but because I'm really no good at racing against a computer, I've yet to enjoy one.  For instance, I'm in Venice during a Carnivale and my task is to steal as many of a particular item I can in a certain amount of time - this part of games has never appealed to me.  I'd rather have plenty of time to think about approach, and don't mind trying many different ways to get to an objective.

I know, I know... stop whining...  ;D

[spaceboy]

it's not whining, it's a reasonable complaint.  I have only done one of the side mission races.  As for a story mission race of course it normally comes down to trial and error to find the best path, which is definitely a different style of gaming than having the time to plan your attack.  I can see your point.  I haven't had that mission yet myself.

[PZ]

You're too kind spaceboy - however, the only difference between me and the whiners on game publisher's forums is that I don't let it ruin my game, like most of them tend to do   ;D

[Fiach]

Yeah, we had a similar discussion in CoJ 2, where progress was halted in a very annoying way.

I only played the tutorial section and the part where you race your brother(?) was annoying to me, It wasnt hard, but sometimes your character didnt go where you wanted him to.

I think UBi are trying to corner the market on parkour (freestyle running), but thats fine for eg, Mirrors Edge, people know what the are buying, but a game called Assassins Anything, would not lead you to assume the game is about freestyle running, which is counter-intuitive to anything assassin themed.

Its a shame you are enjoying the game so much and then get presented with this, I hope you can clear it soon mate .

[spaceboy]

I'm not sure I completely agree though Fiach.  Maybe it's because I've played it, but clearly you know (assuming you research at all on the 'net - and if you buy games without researching then shame on you), but clearly you know there is climbing and rooftop running, not just killing.  I also think it fits in with what an assassin would do - even modern day themed movies have a lot of stealth and climbing and getting to your target from above kind of stuff right?

I get from PZ it's not about the parkour, but just "timed parkour" like a race.  That I can understand, but again - to go along with what mmosu said on the other thread about fighting efficiently - you have to find the most efficient path for the race or to your target.  It can be frustrating but I still think it basically fits into the game.

[Fiach]

Just the fact that they are "races", doesnt seem "assassin-like" to me, but I havent played it as you say. :)

When you hit a wall in a game like that, it does beg the question of whether the game was adequately play-tested or not.

The nearest games I have played to this iteration of AC, was Mirrors Edge and the new Prince of Persia, (I disliked both of them intensely), which have parkour type levels, it just wan't my style of game.

It wouldnt put me off AC2 though, I hated Mirrors Edge with a vengence, because it was all parkour, but a couple of levels here and there in any game, will (hopefully) keep the game fresh and add variety to the game. :)

[spaceboy]

I agree on the actual "races" there are race side missions where you run against a thief - I did one early on to get the trophy, but none since 'cause like you say it doesn't fit into the story.

But racing to get to someone or something "before he escapes" for instance to me seems part of the job description for an assassin.

It's funny you mention the first race against Ezio's brother, I had read a spoiler before having the game about not following the brother and to just climb the Church.  So when I got to that first race, I did chase the brother at first to see if I could beat him (couldn't), but the second time I just ran over to the Church and climbed it - beat him no problem.  So sometimes with these things, the not-so-obvious solution is hiding in plain sight.

I played the demo of Mirror's Edge and that was enough - I couldnt' stand balancing her on beams - no thanks.

[PZ]

**POSSIBLE SPOILERS**


A little bit of an update - I was finally able to collect the items that I needed to in the amount of time allotted, but it was not a fun, nor pleasant gaming experience.  The next one was even worse - you need to jump through 16 checkpoints from street level to rooftop - if you think the race with your brother at the beginning was tough, imagine racing your brother through 16 different obstacles.  After repeatedly attempting this part for about an hour or so, only to achieve a maximum of 9 out of the 16, I realized that there was no point in continuing and gave up to do something else.  I now dread having to go back to that obstacle.

So I thought, why not complete the assassin's tomb missions so I can get Altair's armor, and at least have fun with all of the other quests (other than races) that I enjoy.  Well, I went into the 5th one for me, and it turned out to be another race against time, although not nearly as bad as the ones where you need to chase a person.  The graphics are great, and the idea is very clever, but using the console controller to precisely move Ezio is nearly impossible for me - if you're off ever so slightly then you'll fall a distance down into water and then there is no chance to complete the race against time and you'll need to start over.  Unfortunately for me, I finally gave up in frustration - the sad thing is that the shiny luster of the game has faded for me because of the race issue.  Interestingly, my son called yesterday and told me of his adventure - he is in approximately the same percentage completed of the game and also needs to do the two tomb missions - he chose the other one.  Suffice it to say, I was dismayed when he told me of the difficulty of that level (which he has not completed by the way).

I'm sure that there are those that will not have much trouble, but in my instance, I am now experiencing angst when I open a new mission, praying that it is not another race - too bad really, because I absolutely love the clever in-game devices that the developers have come up with - they are just too difficult for an old guy like me to successfully navigate with a reasonable amount of effort.  ;D

[spaceboy]

I suppose it's tough to come up with enough variation and challenge in a game to please some and not stray enough from core gameplay to please others.  I do know what you mean about frustration with timed parkour events.  It seems that the majority of times I mess up on these it's when I try to go too fast (due to the time constraint) and mess up.  One suggestion is to just slow down and make sure you even walk or jog (instead of sprint) at times to ensure you're lined up or can make a turn without running into a corner.

I think you're talking about the tomb in the Basillica when you have 4 squares that you step on that activate 4 different challenges?  I started it late last night and completed the first one after a couple tries, but gave up on the second (I really needed to go to bed).  I'll try again tonight and see if I can give you some tips.

[Fiach]

Guys you are now officially scaring the beejeesus outta me, regarding AC2  :-[ :P :'(

[spaceboy]

no need to be scared Fiach - you are a gaming God!  ;)

Don't misread what I typed, I only "gave up" after trying it once only cause I needed to sleep.  I'm near where PZ is in the game so I should see what he's talking about in the story mission hopefully tonight. 
-don't forget how old PZ is  ;)   just kidding PZ - you will persevere!

I'll compare to some races in FUEL as long as we're talking about races - there were so many that I thought I could never win - I raced well, but just came nowhere near beating the AI, but then I learned the route, looked for shortcuts, then tried to remember them - after a few tries (sometimes quite a few tries) I'd win the race.  It can be a challenge at times, but great satisfaction to win.

How about a comparison to Far Cry 2? How many of us admit to having a helluva time in Mokuba on that other thread?  Wicked hard area in my book.  Same thing basically.

[Fiach]

I remember playing a recent game called Alone in the Dark, it was an excellent game, but most people (myself included) had an incredibly hard time at the start.

You are in a car and for some reason (no spoilers  ;)), the whole city is collapsing all around you, its quite amazing and cinematic, the road is opening up in fissures behind you as you drive like hell, trying to avoid collapsing skyscrapers and bridges, the only good thing was the load time was very fast after you died and had to re-try again and again, each time getting one or two blocks further, eventually excaping the carnage (see what I did there? car-nage? oh well  :-*  :D).

It was really down to learning the course, but, it was an amazing spectacle and well worth it in the end.

Must dust that off and start it again, it was a great game.

[spaceboy]

Was that whole game good?  I never played it.  Sounds like a good beginning though.  Sometimes if the cinematic portion of a sequence like that are good enough I don't mind replaying it a few times to soak it all in. 

[Fiach]

Yes its quite a good game mate, one thing it has, unlike alot of survival horror games, is tons of weapons, they always respawn ammo, so you are never stuck.

Its very cinematic, I'm not going to go into any detail, so as not to spoil anything, but it is even done like a DVD with episodes, you can even skip episodes if they are too hard (shouldnt be though), you combine items to make improvised weapons, which you can hot key for easy access.

There are cool puzzles and lots of monsters to kill, it looks good too.

There are (IIRC) two major car sequences, that are good but can be annoying as you have to nearly learn the route, but there is a mini map and waypoint markers, so its not really hard, I'm just giving you a heads up, as a fair few people used to whinge about them. But they are cinematic, as you are trying to escape from something each time.

Anyway, it is a good game, should be cheap as chips now too.

[PZ]

...I think you're talking about the tomb in the Basillica when you have 4 squares that you step on that activate 4 different challenges?  I started it late last night and completed the first one after a couple tries, but gave up on the second (I really needed to go to bed).  I'll try again tonight and see if I can give you some tips.

This is the one my son tried for a while and didn't complete - I believe he completed the first square, and has not had the time to do further.  Mine is the other tomb mission that is available - for me the direction sticks on the console just don't w@&k exactly the way I want them to so I keep falling into the depths  ;D .  I guess that it will just take some practice, but in the end scheme of things, it is not something that I look forward to like I have the rest of the game.

[Art Blade]

Probably easier with mouse and keyboard. But that is aeons away...

[PZ]

Well, I finally made it, but it was quite stressful, and I can't say that I enjoyed it - the best I can honestly say is that I'm glad that it's over, and that I'd not like to do that again.  A shame really, because when I re-enter the game eventually, I'll probably avoid anything that resembles a race whenever possible.

As an FC2 analogy, imagine taking the pipeline mission (that one has been discussed a bit recently), and as soon as you accept it, a timer starts.  As your working your way to get the dynamite, you hear the clock ticking in the background.  You fly the glider to the pipeline - as you drop to the ground, the the timer ticks faster.  You set the dynamite and back off to a safe distance - then, just as you're about to trip the detonator, a klaxon sounds and the dynamite dissolves away (because you were only a second too slow) and you fade away only to reappear back in the faction headquarters where you start all over again - this time Greaves only says "You'd better be faster this time!", and away you run - no time to plan, just a frantic race to blow the pipeline before the klaxon sounds again...

[Art Blade]

I like the way you described it and I'm sorry it's so hard hence unpleasant for you. Sometimes games have parts that seem not to belong into that game, as if written by a different author (or as if smuggled past the QA without anyone ever knowing it ever happened). As long as you managed that part of the game, I can only hope you'll be spared this sort of race against the clock type of mission now and that you may find the rest of the game as pleasant as it was until that race.

I'm quite positive that on your next playthrough you'll be much quicker about that part as you've learned what's important and what to do or avoid.

Probably you don't have to replay the entire game, if the game works like its predecessor, that is. There, you could enter that machine, Animus, and instead of progressing in the game, go back to memory slots previously unlocked by you as you solved certain missions. Have a look if there is such an option in your AC2 Animus -- that is the replay from a certain point or the replay of a certain mission JRD spoke of. Please let us know if it works :)

[PZ]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I still really like the game, and it has become addictive in a way, much like FC2 has.  The only disappointment is that the races are almost as stressful as being in an argument at w@&k  ;D  If not for the races part, I dare say that the game would almost be on par with FC2 on my game shelf - I've come to really enjoy most parts of it.  I guess that it just boils down to gaming style - like in FC2, I appreciate having the time to be thoughtful in my approach to a challenge.  To me the appreciation for a game is measured in how I have used my mind to accomplish an assigned task, not just rushing in as fast and destructive as a bull in a china shop (where the largest, fastest bull wins  ;D ).

The good news is that just as JRD mentioned, you can go into the Animus and re-explore the old memories.  In fact, I saw the menu item this morning - will see if I can access it at this time.  If this is the case, then I'm sure that I'll be in the game for a long time to come - I like everything else about the game.  The cities are visually and operationally all different from another, and their appearance reminds me of the 15th century buildings in southern France.  Venice is the water town, and Tuscany is located in the countryside amidst plenty of farm land.  The towns folks behave almost like the "dumbest moments" mercs in FC2, and the ability of Ezio to successfully assassinate using a variety of methods is outstanding - it has become a FC2-like challenge to come up with new ways to accomplish your task.  As much as I complain, it is overall still an excellent game.

[Art Blade]

 :)

I was just thinking, should you ever happen to see a copy of AC1, it might be a good idea for you to get it despite of its age (2 years) and the fact that it is not the same game as AC2, but for the fact that the cities -- especially Acre and Damascus -- are well worth it, using the Animus to go back to those moments, and to explore. I don't think you've got that many horses to ride on in AC2 as you did in AC1, it was like those ATs in FC2, they came in many different flavours (colour and saddle decor) and there were GPs across the country, too :)

[PZ]

Not a bad idea - will probably get it for the PC if it is available for that platform (I still prefer the mouse over the clunky PS3 controller) - I'm not sure why I love my console, but I do!  ;D

[Art Blade]

I've played AC1 on my other PC two years ago :)

[spaceboy]

It's funny to me thinking of gaming with a mouse actually because the only computer game I really played was Duke Nukem and it was all keyboard controled - probably why I'm so into keyboard shortcuts in Excel instead of moving mice to icons...  Now of course I've been a console gamer since the PS1 and it's just natural to me...plus I like the rumble effect when explosions go off or tanks drive by etc.  But I can understand the precision achieved with a mouse, certainly that input device is made for quick precision clicks.

[Art Blade]

I remember dn3d and playing with keyboard only, funny lan parties. Next step was the Quake1 addon "Malice" (and a little vanilla q1) also all keyboard, another fun lan party. Next step was quake2, during a lan party, where like 5 of my mates and me used keyboards only and one guy... ruled. He was in a room down the stairs, and I could only see his character on screen moving incredibly fast and aiming like hell. So I went downstairs to see with my own eyes how the heck that guy did it... he simply said "mouse" -- LOL

Ever since, I've played with keyboard and mouse.

[PZ]

As I've alluded to before, I feel like a talented sniper when I use the mouse, and like Fred Flintstone using his feet to aim his rifle when I'm using the console controller - I really suck at it  ;D