ArmA2 Demo: first impressions

[JRD]

Yep... just installed the demo, but not without that 3D sound dll issue. Thanks Art for the post that fixed it.

I think so far I'm the only member at OWG that played the original OFP1 - Cold War Crisis, at least that I'm aware of (dke58 got it but never progressed, I guess). So I figured ArmA2 deserved a post to compare both games.

That's a sequel of OFP1 in rich details. The boot camp is the one at OFP1, only in a different location, the vegetation is the same, the trucks, the asphalt (and the cracks in it), the colors, the basic movements and all-the-keyboard-is-not-enough too. The Humvee wasn't there as it was 1985, neither the scopes or advanced rocket launchers, but guns were all the same as well
Even the blip when your objective is updated is the same. The messages in the lower left corner with the same color pallets... that's how OFP1 was.
I was expecting better graphics for sure... it's been 8 years since OFP1, and CG has come a looooooong way since then. Tree models are way more detailed in today's games as well as the general landscapes and scenarios, so A2 might not be attractive for today's players.
OFP1 wasn't that pretty in 2001 either, but the strong thing about it was gameplay. Freedom of choice, command of units, memorable battles and breathtaking adrenalyn into the game... more on that as I progress into the game!

I can see what Bohemia took and learned from the previous installment... I'm now even more curious to see what OFP2-DR has to show as CodeMasters also had their share after the split

I'm only into boot camp as I just installed it and it's quite late on a monday night, I'll update this post as I move into the game if anyone is interested in comparing both games.



Anyway, I foresee looong MP battles, mods and OWG-created missions for both A2 and OFP2  ;D

[gvse]

I have only played the demo for ofp1 and the graphics were god-awful compared to today's games. As I have already written somewhere here, A2 has a strange mix of beautiful and ugly: e.g. helicopters, equipment in general, look very cool, photorealistic almost, whereas far-off landscape features seem bland, like flat 2d surfaces.
Well, I am curious what you make of the game and whether you can load custom missions ;)

[JRD]

A2 has a strange mix of beautiful and ugly: e.g. helicopters, equipment in general, look very cool, photorealistic almost, whereas far-off landscape features seem bland, like flat 2d surfaces.

I agree 100%... almost as they chose to create eye candy characters and models to be played in an old fashioned scenario.
Vegetation are like two or three flat planes put across each other... FC2 vegetation is much, much more realistic and beautyful. Actually... landscapes in A2 are almost the same as in OFP1  :D .
Don't get me wrong here, as long as gameplay is good, I don't mind low detailed graphics, specially because today's low detailed graphics are stunning anyway (I played games in the 80's)...
... more tonight  ;)

[PZ]

Great review, Jrd, and I can echo the observations you made about the demo.  Although I am not aware of any of the attributes of OFP1, your remarks seem spot on.  :-X

[Art Blade]

I read your report with great interest, JRD, and can relate my experience to yours, somehow. Unfortunately I never played OFP1.

I was thinking a lot about the graphics in ArmA2. I thought comparatively about FC2 and FUEL, especially about the colours. Then I thought about the fact that the game engine (at least part of it) will be used in real military training, you can find some links somewhere on the A2/dev sites advertising that.

Well, I think some of the graphics are plain crap, especially those bloody grass "sheets" JRD also commented about. But the overall impression is just realistic. Real life usually doesn't have those cinematographically enhanced deep colours of FUEL or those sometimes overdone HDR light effects (and colours) of FC2. I don't say I like the looks of the landscape or crappy vegetations of ArmA2. I do like deep colours and artificial beauty of FC2 and FUEL. A Russian coutryside just is not like a tropical island or an African jungle. I am just trying to be fair.

[JRD]

I don't say I like the looks of the landscape or crappy vegetations of ArmA2. I do like deep colours and artificial beauty of FC2 and FUEL. A Russian coutryside just is not like a tropical island or an African jungle. I am just trying to be fair.

I could do well with dim colors and pastel pallets and even without the beautyful lights of FC2... but crappy trees/vegetation models... seems like devs made it four years ago, left it inside a drawer and concentrated on the vehicles and gameplay only.
Still comparing games... the way FC2's ground is covered in tall grass, small plants and bushes, roots, leaves, rocks, is so well tailored you hardly notice the boundary between savannah and jungle.
Agree with Art when he says a countryside in Russia isn't as rich as a jungle, but I got images from google to show how the landscape can be pretty. Links instead of actual images because I think it's not necessary to have those images in my folder.

Niwot tundra
Trees by a lake
Vivid colors
Beautyful mountains


PS: I'll post good things about A2 as well when I manage to play a bit more tonight... it's a great game even though not a beautyful one  :)

[Art Blade]

haha, it wasn't meant to criticise your sound oppinion :) It was a mere thought I had in contrast to yours. It is very welcome to have a critical voice put in a post, and this stuff here just offers plenty of room for oppinions :) Russia is so big you'll surely find any kind of beauty and the opposite as well, I think that goes for every part in the world. And game.  ;) And I agree with you, JRD, that ArmA2 is not beautiful. But... the fighting is crap too... the AI... glitches... hell, ArmA2 is a giant public beta and not a proper sequel of a game years old. That's why I'm so curious how much better operation flashpoint Dragon Rising will be  ;D ;D ;D

[JRD]

ArmA2 is not beautiful. But... the fighting is crap too... the AI... glitches... hell, ArmA2 is a giant public beta and not a proper sequel of a game years old. That's why I'm so curious how much better operation flashpoint Dragon Rising will be  ;D ;D ;D

:o For the ghost of Lenin!!!
Propaganda... is that it? I know the official web sites will try to sell their products, but glitchy, dumb AI in a war sim is something I can't stand! (mercs are allowed a fair dose of AD though  ;D )
What happened to Micro AI with centimeter precision capable of outsmarting players?
And what about built-in dynamic conversation?

OhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoy
OhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoyOhBoy

Finger crossed for OFP2-DR... now any past delay can be forgiven  :D (provided they are fixing that kind of crap, of course)

[JRD]

=====UPDATED IMPRESSIONS=====

Did some of the training missions.

Boot camp: Good dynamics... just what I was expecting from Bohemia after OFP1. Each and every move has to be performed in details. Dragging and healing a wounded soldier and moving over fences are great additions. Movements looks good too. Driving using the keyboard is a bit awkward, but that's OK, it's not a driving sim and keyboard is always weird for driving anyway (see FC2).
Drove to the heavy weapons range and chose to move into the village to wipe out enemies: Had a great shootout. I was behind a small brickwall by the road whare I could scan the area for enemies and managed to shoot 3 of them before getting hit. Moved in and up the hill east of my position where I could go prone and keep scanning, but by that time I was pretty injured and aiming was rather difficult. I could see them trying to flank me and smartly looking for cover.
The effect of being injured is very good in the crosshair and how your vision gets blurred... moving was also slower then. Finnaly managed to clear the area playing on regular, shot the wooden tanks and finished boot camp.
Great training, firefight dynamics seemed really good, at least on training!! Only thing is I found too confusing to get and exchange weapons by the crates in the heavy weapons range... quite clumsy, but I guess I just have to get the hang of it.

Parachute jump: Hit the LZ on my first try... nothing else to comment on that

Helicopter training: Oh yeah.... models looks great and flying is somewhat easier than in OFP1. Once you lean forward, the nose keeps down and if you want to slow down, pull the nose up or hit enter twice for auto hover. Found flying with the mouse too clumsy, so I was flying with the keyboard only... not too hard if you are patient. Shooting targets isn't as funny as one could expect as you just approach a target and your gunner have all the fun, but that's a war sim. OFP1 was just like that, but once you get the hang of approaching targets its a thrilling experience to wipe out convoys or provide air support for your troops.

======================================

There are some more training left: command troops etc... more on that later.
I still think graphics are quite lower than I expected, but, again, I would give up eye candy for good gameplay.

Smoke... smoke looks real bad, they could deffo improve that feature... OFP2 vids promise thick black clouds of smoke as you bomb an area... see if they can deliver it

So far my experience is somewhat opposite to Art's, but he's been on on actual gameplay more than me, so I also trust his opinion and will keep an eye for glitches and crappy AI as I move into the demo.
Finnally... ArmA2 is about to get my gravel if I can cope with some flaws... if it's really a giant glitched beta as Art says (I believe you son, I believe ;D )... than I'll wait for OFP2

[spaceboy]

Agree with Art when he says a countryside in Russia isn't as rich as a jungle, but I got images from google to show how the landscape can be pretty. Links instead of actual images because I think it's not necessary to have those images in my folder.

Niwot tundra
Trees by a lake
Vivid colors
Beautyful mountains

Nice pics JRD (had nobody looked at these)  especially the 4th one.  Wow, I haven't seen pictures so inspiring in a long time...  Thanks JRD!

[Art Blade]

JRD, nice review :) cool you managed the helicopter so easily, I bought a joystick for just that. Chute jumping was cool indeed.

Crappy AI, examples:

- My own crew of two helis decided to land on top of a flat surface. A lake. The crew could swim, though.

- transport chopper dropped us at the landing zone, and my crew walked around the chopper just to have themselves chopped up in its rear rotor.

- pickup chopper should give us a lift, to get out of the battle zone, and decided to land inside a narrow yard. Got stuck and blew itself up, and me with it.

- enemy sees you approach 1 billion miles away, and hits you. You can't see them before you nearly bump into them.

- Your team walkes ahead through walls, you have to walk around it... and if you get attacked, your team can't reach you. Enemies do that too, walk through walls.

- your team, even set to expert AI, can't win a battle without you, they almost always get shot. The enemy, at the time, was set to most stupid rookie AI, yet outsmarts me or my team.

- lol... I told my team mate to "drive that pickup at one o'clock" which I couldn't see but had a command option for it. I had to run for two miles after him until we got to that car. At night. Naturally, they do see better than you...

- medic (corpsman) gets ordered to help a wounded team mate, and gets shot at the same spot. Or, medic walks aimlessly around despite of me calling "need help!" and I bleed to death.

Need more?  ;D

[JRD]

- My own crew of two helis decided to land on top of a flat surface. A lake. The crew could swim, though.

Thought that one was on a mission you created? They were looking for a flat area to land, from what I can remember! Still dumb anyway

- transport chopper dropped us at the landing zone, and my crew walked around the chopper just to have themselves chopped up in its rear rotor.

Darwin awards  ;D ;D

- Your team walkes ahead through walls, you have to walk around it... and if you get attacked, your team can't reach you. Enemies do that too, walk through walls.

You mean they walk through it like ghosts? Damn... that's crappy... untested, unfinished... ruins the fun of playing  :(

- your team, even set to expert AI, can't win a battle without you, they almost always get shot. The enemy, at the time, was set to most stupid rookie AI, yet outsmarts me or my team.

- medic (corpsman) gets ordered to help a wounded team mate, and gets shot at the same spot. Or, medic walks aimlessly around despite of me calling "need help!" and I bleed to death.

That's crappy too... what's the point in having other troopers with you if you have to watch over them all the time? I want them to do as told, watch out for themselves and cover my back.

Say no more my friend... ArmA2 is not getting a cent from my well deserved wage  >:(

Too bad... I am really enjoying the demo  :(

Thanks a lot for taking the time to read and post your experiences  :-X

[Art Blade]

Always welcome.

I think gvse hit the nail on the head when he said "the editor". I think it is the only thing that is worth playing ArmA2, and while using the editor, put a vehicle of your choice in front of you and go explore without enemies. A sight-seeing in a chopper is still cool, over Chernarus. Or driving a rubber boat along the coast line. As long as you can edit, it is a different game, since you play your own or a member's (like gvse) missions. That is nice.

Although I've been quite hard about ArmA2, I'm still telling you my own experiences and they are all true. Gvse said once beautiful ugly, and that is not only the graphics, it's the entire game. It's too fascinating to kick it away, but not so fascinating you'd give up FC2 for it. NEVER!  ;D

So I will keep playing ArmA2, find out more, try to cope with the odds, and hope for more patches to come.

I think this game is great for war sim enthusiasts, but not so very much a great game for those who simply like "gaming."

I think it will be very interesting to keep both forums, ArmA2 and OFP:DR, head-to-head. I'm looking forward to comparing both games, once DR is out. Until then, we already have ArmA2, and maybe some more patches :)

[JRD]

I see your point.
But pay US$50 for an editor is way too much. I like SP campaigns a lot and was hoping for a game to fullfill my expectation of a cool war sim. OFP1 was great and as far as I remember well finished and tested... crap blocky graphics though, but excellent gameplay.

The more complex are interactions of AI x environment x you, the more likely it is to fail miserably  :P

Will deffo save my cash for OFP2-DR.
Someday, if they patch ArmA2 and yours and gvse's reviews are better, I'll get a cheap copy of A2, even if its just for the editor... OWG-created missions can make for an outstanding good time online and offline.
I'll keep my impressions on this post though and hope to hear what you guys think of the full version of the game.
As you said... have both A2 and OFP2 boards side by side can be great  :-X

Keep up the good w@&k Art... thanks  :-X

[Art Blade]

hahahaha, 50$ for an editor, nice comment  ;D And thanks for your input, too :)
One thing though, not sure if I read this right:

hear what you guys think of the full version of the game

Are you referring to A2? Because gvse and I have the full version of it... or did you mean DR?

[JRD]

I meant after you finished the SP campaign... sometimes story and gameplay gets so intense that you overlook some flaws.

[Art Blade]

ah, I see. Haha, I was frightened so much by gvse's comments about how he gave up on the missions I didn't even try so far. I did try those campaigns though, which for him were sort of fun. Because of that I thought great, that I'll manage too. But I seriously had so much trouble with even the first one, and the next one I think I still haven't finished. So if that was "fun" I don't even want to know what "hard" is. LOL not yet, at least :) I'm not ready yet!!  ;D

[gvse]

Hey guys, I will chime in with some observations.
As for AI, the latest patch has improved things, and they no longer seem to be able to walk through walls. On recruit, enemy AI is much easier to beat than regular as I breezed through my mission yesterday on the easiest setting, whereas today I am cursing at the monitor cause I keep dying on regular.
Art, if you want your chopper to land safely you can place an invisible heli pad in the editor and in this way prevent catastrophes.
Enemy is indeed hard to see but turning postprocessning off makes everything sharper so it helps a bit.
Despite its flaws (the uneven graphics and erratic AI behavior) I must say i am hooked on this game, mainly because you can design almost any type of mission and then play it and still be surprised and challenged by the way it unfolds.

[JRD]

Despite its flaws (the uneven graphics and erratic AI behavior) I must say i am hooked on this game, mainly because you can design almost any type of mission and then play it and still be surprised and challenged by the way it unfolds.

Oh boy... I was afraid of that... good comments about A2... now, on a second thought... A2 MIGHT get my cash after all  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The thing is; I had very low expectation regarding A2 but they went sky high as I was reading through the  posts of this board (add it to my endless wait fo OFP2, of course).
Expectations went ground low again, so now I'm even again  ;D
In other words... I can take my time to evaluate whether I get it or not... this is not a must have for me anymore, but I might  ;)






In Brazil we would say "I don't know whether I get married or buy a bicicle"  :P

[Art Blade]

all I can say is, beautiful ugly :) Since I already got it, I'll keep playing it, and I wouldn't say it was a waste of money. Ugly beautiful :)

And you do have a nice saying there, JRD  ;D

[gvse]

I concur, it's definitely not a waste of money, but if you have the patience JRD then wait till Dragon Rising is out as, having seen the videos, it looks more visually appealing than A2.
Plus, I have tried to get some thrills in multiplayer but the gameplay modes are so different from standard deathmatches and search-and-destroy that I was left frustrated not knowing how to proceed... :(

[JRD]

... to buy or not to buy  :-\

[JRD]

Agree with Art when he says a countryside in Russia isn't as rich as a jungle, but I got images from google to show how the landscape can be pretty. Links instead of actual images because I think it's not necessary to have those images in my folder.

Niwot tundra
Trees by a lake
Vivid colors
Beautyful mountains

Nice pics JRD (had nobody looked at these)  especially the 4th one.  Wow, I haven't seen pictures so inspiring in a long time...  Thanks JRD!

You're the only one sharing the beauty of the landscape... you are a man of fine taste as I said once spaceboy  :-X  ;D  ;)

[Art Blade]

I didn't want anyone to look closer at the two mountains in a moist environment  ;) ;D

[JRD]

Finished the tutorial and am ready to move to the scenarios.......... I guess  ::)
As far as Team Command goes, its basically the same as OFP1, a bit more sophisticated. But High Command adds a lot to gameplay. I never played ArmA1, but I assume its the same idea - be a General  :D

In OFP1 you had a platoon at your disposal and could call air and tank support... this time you issue orders to a whole army... if it plays ok during the game, than this is cool, otherwise is crap... I must admit that the algorythms to perform such commands must be extremely complex, and therefore, subject to errors, of course.

I'll see how it feels during the scenarios and post back.

Another difference to the original OFP1 is the character you play.
In Cold War Crisis you play primarily as a private from a small team caught in the middle of the conflict. As the story progress you play as a spec ops, a tank commander and a pilot and quite often you have different assingments in the same place.

For instance: as a private, you meet members of the resistence that gives you valuable intel about a particular place you just escaped. You pass the info to the spec ops who moves in stealthy and pinpoint AAA, tanks and troops. You then attack the place commanding a tank platoon to eliminate AAA so the choppers can initiate a full attack (you fly and command them). After the attack, your private character, now promoted to lieutenant, charges in with a bunch of troopers and hold the place....
That dynamic was great for gameplay and story... will miss it  ;)