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Ok, based on the issue coming up with TDU2  - I couldn't believe the option was not there to invert my Y axis.  I know others that don't, but either way most of us couldn't play the "other way".

Maybe it has to do with if you played early Flight Sims or not, but it just seems natural to pull back to look up, and push the stick forward to look down.

Only real men invert their axis' :)

just as space mentioned, "early flight sims" were the reason why I played for literally decades with inverted y-axis (if you count both joystick and mouse). Only very recently out of stupid necessity I had to re-educate myself and now I don't invert it any more.

hmm I see another member voted No besides Art, but is too ashamed to put down who it was I see...  :)

As space mentioned, to me it also feels unnatural to me to pull back on a joystick to look down, so I don't play any game without inverted Y

Quote from: spaceboy on February 11, 2011, 07:13:11 PM
hmm I see another member voted No besides Art, but is too ashamed to put down who it was I see...  :)

:-D

That was me :-[ I was under the impression that not inverting the Y-axis resulted in the joystick-forward/look-down configuration. Shows how long it's been since I sim-flew anything...

Now I'm confused... I play FPSs with a mouse, and if I push the mouse forward it makes me look down. So does that mean my Y-axis is inverted? If so, then my answer should have been a "Yes" and thus I should be considered a real man :-()

yeah fragger, your a real man lol

what you described is Y inverted as far as joystick is concerned, though I have to admit that describing the use of a mouse that way (still inverted I guess) seems quite unnatural based on the fact we normally use mice.

Anyways, you should be able to change your vote.

Cheers space, vote changed - I didn't notice that I could do that before. Also I made a mistake with what I said about the mouse - I play: forward/UP, not down. I tell you, some days... I wasn't expecting senility to hit me this early into my 50s ::)

I tried playing a game once with inverted Y axis, I was pumped so full of lead I sank a foot into the ground without even perforating one guy, some of the lead came from my own gun, kept on shooting myself in the foot   :D  never again   :-D

Quote from: nexor63 on March 05, 2011, 04:22:21 PM
... some of the lead came from my own gun, kept on shooting myself in the foot   :D  never again   :-D

^+-+ :-X

 ^+-+

I'm useless without an inverted Y.  A lot of PS3 games have the option to invert the X axis as well - now that's weird! 

maybe if you want to use the controller upside down?  ^+-+

I never could play inverted. I'm pretty sure while using the joystick for BF1942 it was normal flight sim style or inverted I suppose, pull back and you climb, push forward and you dive. But, while playing an FPS, it's "normal FPS" mode I guess. Pulling back looks down and pushing forward looks up. Essentially, it's the same as using a mouse in any normal program, if you push forward, your cursor goes to the top of the screen, pull back, and it goes to the bottom. Same goes for the crosshair in an FPS, push and it goes to the top of the screen, or "up", pull and it goes to the bottom, or "down".

Maybe it's because I'm a console player, but I perceive camera control completely differently in my mind's eye.  It's like there's a camera on a swivel with a stick coming out the back of it (analogous to a thumb-stick on a controller I suppose).  So, for example, to point the camera up toward the sky you need to push the stick down toward the ground.  That's what seems to make sense to my brain at least.

very true mmosu.  I often think of the stick as moving your avatars head.  I tilt my head back to look up, why wouldn't I do the same with my controller? 

Of course if I picture using a mouse I woud push the mouse forward to move the curser up, because that's what I do when using a PC.   I know accuracey with a mouse is great, but it seems too clinical to me, or too much like w@&k.  I love gaming with a controller, it feels like an extension of my hands.  When I pick up a controller I get excited, not the same with a mouse lol.  But enough on that.

Inverted Y FTW!

I just voted and what? 50-50! I'm surpriced by that, I think only in flying (flight simulator) it's standard to invert y as.

Read about the discussion on controler or mouse config. I never got a hang on these controllers. Maybe because a friend of mine allways plays console games and stresses me out when I can't do proper gaming due to being confused with the buttons. I just like mouse aiming far more as well.
Doesn't feel like w@&k ( ^+-+) anymore, since I spend more time gaming then ---oops--- working I wanted to say. That's not true, but in my w@&k I type a lot, don't use the mouse that much. Internet is not allowed on my job  >:((

I'm wondering how much time will pass untill the movement-senced controlers like on the Wii (and PS3 a$$ well) will take over in shooters. Just a matter of years I guess, it's logical. Next year you buy an AK47 when choosing a shooter, and you just put you movement-sences controller inside  ^+-+.
Then we (pc-gamers) can finally compete together with consolegamers in multiplayer matches. Auto-aim will loose popularity and multiplayer gaming will be united in one big mess of gaming madmen  ::)

... just one step away of virtual reality... oh damn, i'm dreaming again  ;)

My only PC gaming I ever did was Duke 3D which was all keyboard and loved it.  But using a mouse seems too common to me.  I use it all day on the PC (along with keyboard of course) so holding a controller is GAME TIME only and doesn't make me feel like I'm clicking away my enemies, but rather shooting as the shoot button is in the front and you "pull it back" with your trigger finger.  I just like it better.

Now as for the future you described, it is HERE!  Check out the link below.  This is a gun accessory for the PS3 Move controller (I have this) and it's great!  So fun to stand with this nicely made (decently heavy) "gun" against your shoulder and pull an actual trigger to shoot.  Turning and moving does take some getting used to so I don't yet use it online, but for offline it's incredibly fun.   As for cross-platform gaming, we PS3ers will be able to do co-op with PCers in Portal 2 so we've got that!

http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-Move-Sharp-Shooter-3/dp/B002I0K622/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1301520964&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/PlayStation-Move-Sharp-Shooter-3/dp/B002I0K622/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1301520964&sr=8-1)

Lol, that's a cool feature there!! Reality just went ahead of me, haha. I didn't know of the existance if this feature, but there it is and it looks handy. Not too big and not too real. I imagine a cop moving by your place when you're playing a good shooter, he would just alarm a swat team to come and arrest you  ^+-+

Cool that Portal 2 will connect us through multiplayer, looking forward to that!

yeah, I like the look and feel of it.  Some neat features are there are two reload techniques (one is a button underneath the handle which you can quickly "slap" like your slamming in another clip, the other is a pump action of the bottom part that holds the nav controller - so it is like a shotgun).  Killzone 3 also allows you to just tilt the controller 1/4 turn to reload which is used if you don't have the peripheral.

Fun stuff  ;D

:)

Most of the games can be covered with a few simple move controllers (rifle, pistol, stick/sword). But I'm currently playing something that makes excessive use of a whip and boots (to kick with) -- kind of difficult to transform a 150-feet-long whip, don't you think? ;D

Quote from: Art Blade on March 30, 2011, 11:24:13 PM
...But I'm currently playing something that makes excessive use of a whip and boots...

Er... exactly what kind of game are you playing there, Art? :-\\

lol fragger - I think it's Urban Cowboy or something like that  ;)

Seriously though, while a peripheral wouldn't w@&k "What did you just do to the TV!!!", the Move could definitely simulate a whip on-screen incredibly well.  It captures such subtle changes to the angle and twists of your wrist - it still amazes me.  Such very small differences in how you flick your wrist for frisbee, bocce, table tennis etc.  If implemented correctly it would actually be pretty sweet.  Come to think of it, if Bulletstorm was Move compatible I'd probably have picked it up already.

I was referring to Bulletstorm  :-D

 ;)

That gun accessory is a cool-looking thing, space :-X

Quote from: Art Blade on March 31, 2011, 07:32:46 AM
I was referring to Bulletstorm  :-D

Oh, I thought he was talking about It's Raining Men 2:  Shore Leave  :-[



. . . wow, I couldn't even type that with a straight face  :-D

Hehehe  :-D

It happened once by accident on a game I do not recall and it just made me feel like I was drunk and falling over, never bothered since.

Only if I`m flying...  8)

Hey Red - been meaning to say welcome back and good to hear from you...  :-X  That same feeling is what I get if I DON'T invert. 

JRD - flying/walking, what's the difference?!?   :)

Legs or wing usually, depends on how drunk you are.....

 ^+-+

Actually, who invented this Y-axis inversion anyway? And why?

LOL @ Red....  :-X

@space
Walking - If I want to look up I push the mouse forward and if I want to stare at my feet I pull it back (towards me)
Flying - pushing the mouse forward causes the plane nose to point down, whereas pulling it backwards (towards myself) pulls the nose up.

;)

Quote from: Binnatics on April 20, 2011, 01:58:11 PMActually, who invented this Y-axis inversion anyway? And why?

Probably Aperture. Because they can.  :-D

Quote from: JRD on April 20, 2011, 02:06:35 PM
@space
Walking - If I want to look up I push the mouse forward and if I want to stare at my feet I pull it back (towards me)
Flying - pushing the mouse forward causes the plane nose to point down, whereas pulling it backwards (towards myself) pulls the nose up.

;)

But that's my point JRD.  Why is putting the nose of your plane up in the air different than putting the nose of your gun-toting mercanary up in the air.  Either way, pull back to look up.  Like us inverters have said before - if I want to look up I tilt my head BACK!!!  LOL!!!!!     Again though I think using a Mouse would lend me not to invert because moving the cursor forward always moves my "aim"/cursor up the screen all day long.

Big difference I think conceptually to move a mouse forward vs. moving a controller's analog stick forward.

A controller's analog stick tilts over the apex, so with forward movement it ends up tilting down (looking down) and backward it ends up tilting up (looking up).  Not that all console gamers invert ("some people you just can't reach") but I'll bet a greater percentage of console gamers do vs. PCers.


-This might explain Binnatics confusion over the creation of inverting... but then again, he is a horrible person...it says so right on his evaluation sheet...and we weren't even testing for that...  ;)

 ^+-+

Oops... guess I itched a scratch somewhere  ;D

I see your point space... and agree with that! Playing with consoles - or joysticks - makes me go the same way as you. Guess the reason is the same you just explained... moving my mouse forward will aim my cursor up and playing any flying game will prompt me to an inverted way of thinking... both the airplane nose and my nose will respond to the same principle ;) .
...
...
...
...
man... I was just voting on a poll  ::)

...dispite my evaluation sheet.... I think I get the point there. Your explanation of the joystick-way of thinking makes it quite logic inverting. I'm just too much into mouse 'n keyboard thinking I guess  :-[

makes sense.

Now just continue testing, and when you're finished...there will be cake!

I didn't get the horrible person joke until I got called one myself ^+-+

See you guys in the cake dispensary

I guess like so many things it becomes habitual for most people, depending on what they use most or started with.
As a test of my aptitude have decided to try inverting the axis and see if I can un-learn my habits!

Quote from: spaceboy on April 21, 2011, 09:39:32 AM
there will be cake!

Oh boy oh boy oh boy, I love cake, what sort ?

Quote from: fragger on April 21, 2011, 09:58:20 AM
I didn't get the horrible person joke until I got called one myself ^+-+

See you guys in the cake dispensary

lol fragger, I knew it would be an inside Portal joke - just for those of us "in the know"


@ Red - be careful - don't mess with your brain too much.  I really think it would take A LOT of practice for anyone to switch.  It'd be like writing with your other hand.  Good luck on that  ???

Damn you got me there Spaceboy!!! I really was worried about me being a horrible person. I should have known  :-[ :-[ :-[

I will go on for the cake, hope it won't be a lie again  ^-^

@ binnatics - oh whoops too subtle I guess..hahaha. Sorry, I must have come off like quite a git there!!


oh and as an aside.  I thought this was a great way to incorporate the inversion question.

The game inFamous on PS3 - the first thing that happens is a you wake up in the middle of a blast zone and a rescue chopper is hovering above.  It says something like "Are you ok?  Look up at the chopper."  Of course whatever you're natural tendency is you do and that sets the inversion on or off. 

You could change it in the menus, but I thought that was pretty smart.  Since almost all games I forget to do it straight away and not until I start moving around do I go "no way, gotta go to options and change this"

That's a novel way to get your inversion preference (inFamous). I like it! 8)

Interesting to see that the nays have overtaken the yeas in the poll...

Okay, let's invert your Y axis and see if you handle that the same way you just did without the inversion. It could come in handy, you never know ;)

Spoiler

Here's this next test:
[smg id=3239 width=500]
Shoot a portal again and make your way to the other side of the test chamber (http://openworldgames.org/owg/forums/index.php?topic=2210.msg39148#msg39148)

Some games ask you if you want to inverse, before the play starts. And I responded yes, by accident. Took me quite a bit before I stumbled to the menues, to change it. You really are invalid if you're in your unnatural way of playing  ????

cool idea to use that "look up at the chopper" to check if inversion is needed or not and if so to actually change it without bothering the player. wow ??? :-X

Hehe space, I remember when I changed from inverted to regular, it was indeed like learning to write with "the other hand" but it is only one letter. Sometimes, after some time without gaming with a mouse (like racing games), when I fire up a shooter, I realise that I try to look as if the mouse was inverted which it is not and that makes me virtually stumble until I reset my internal orientation and then it's all good again. :)

Quote from: fragger on April 21, 2011, 10:14:59 AM
Interesting to see that the nays have overtaken the yeas in the poll...

It's probably because we have more PC players than strict console players at OWG, the reason being what space already said (mouse vs. thumbstick).

Quote from: spaceboy on April 20, 2011, 03:08:50 PM
-This might explain Binnatics confusion over the creation of inverting... but then again, he is a horrible person...it says so right on his evaluation sheet...and we weren't even testing for that...  ;)

I almost choked when I read that!  ^+-+ :-X

Although I'm not a Portal player, I can tell there is a connection. It was funny even without being in the know :)