Pre-owned games a thing of the past?

[Fiach]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115707-Volition-Dev-Vs-Pre-Owned-Games

The rumour that Microsofts next 360 will not play "used" (preowned) games, to me is frankly...bizarre. I can not see M$ ignoring such a HUGE market, to help developers that develop for multiplatform markets, in such a unilateral way. To police such a thing even in the most basic way would be to insist that only people with an internet connection (to validate the games), would be able to buy the M$ game console.

Methinks the developer is grasping at straws.

[JRD]

 ???

I say they are full of s#!t!  \:/

Screw those assholes... if you legally purchased a game, then it's yours to do whatever you want as long as you keep it legal, and to sell a righteously owned disc is legal no matter what they say!

It really pisses me off to see MS or any other giant corporation taking control of what is mine (not really because I don't have an XBOX but you know what I mean) and deciding what I can or can't do!

As it is stated in the article... what if I want to lend a game to a friend... lots of people do it, then what? I'd have to issue a temporary license transfer in the name of that friend? Yeah, right!  :D What about game rental shps? Blockbuster has a service like that... are they going to just accept that?  :D

[fragger]

"...the consumers would be up in arms about it at first... they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

Of course I'll understand. Being called a crook for buying a second-hand product makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

"...They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing..."

Oh, really? Last time I looked, purchasing a used game didn't constitute stealing. That's like saying privately purchasing a used car hurts the automotive industry as much as stealing one does.

"Durall admits that such a system would have its faults..."

Gee, you think?

I'd be more inclined to believe that a system that puts a Durall in a director's chair has its faults.

What a complete wanker

[PZ]

...The rumour that Microsofts next 360 will not play "used" (preowned) games, to me is frankly...

This quite frankly does not surprise me at all. microsoft regularly pushes the envelope, and I do not mean that in a good way.  Just look at how their latest browser iteration tries to set a new standard; only for themselves of course.

[Art Blade]

On one hand, it is the ultimate goal in an open market to get on top and that someone up there will try everything to stay there. On the other hand, the customers are the ones who make it happen.. or not. If we accept it and play along, it will become the new standard. And frankly, I fear that will happen just as it happened with STEAM and their model of online registration of games (I used to be one who rebelled and resisted but I know when a battle is lost). Of course the first ones to start online registration were MS and their fucking registration policy for windows OS.

[Fiach]

I'll tell you whats hurting the games industry....

I went to Tesco's today with the intention of buying The Darkness 2, sometimes in Tescos you get a good deal on release day (CoD earlier this year was something like €35), anyway, the game was €55, now this may seem normal to some people, but here you get most 360 games for about €45, PS3 exclusives are usually about €55, but inherant in that €55 for those PS3 exclusives is an expected quality level.

The Darkness is a 5 hour game.....

Recently I bought two version of Batman AC, neither of which, for various reasons (save corruption and wouldnt recognise gamepad), I could play.

I remember Binnatics rage against..err...Rage, Fragger's love/hate relationship with Lara Croft, I'm sure everyone here has come a cropper with some videogame or other, due to lack of quality control.

If I go out and buy a loaf of bread or a litre of milk, a book or a DVD, there are regulations that ensure I will enjoy the product as being fit for purpose, with videogames we have to sign away our rights before we can even start the fecking game and see if its fit for purpose...and if its not, tough s#!t, because we clicked the "accept" button and woe betide you if you bought the game as a digi download, at least you have a chance at salvation if you bought a hard copy from a "human" and endeavour to return it, but you  are doubly screwed if you bought it on Steam/GG/GMG etc.

So,  I would suggest that if dev's want us to buy their games, make the quality/quantity commensurate with the price.

I think that if we can only buy "new" games, it will hurt the industry even further as people will only buy a game that will be a Triple "A" experience and if thats so, Volition staff will become residents at the local social welfare office, because I cant remember any game by them that was actually "fit for purpose" or that would be considered a double A title, let alone a triple A title.

/end rant.

[spaceboy]

Though I typically buy games new now, when I started getting back into gaming it was used all the way.

Obviously a certain number of games purchased new are only purchased new knowing they could be sold and the purchaser could recoup some costs.  I sell games back rarely, mostly for stupid sentimental reasons as much as expecting either my son or I will play them again in the future.

For me, I think the online pass idea is a decent solution (for online content only - and only for games with a single player story too).  That way you can buy it used and play single player, but if you want to go online and use the servers etc. you have contributed something to the developers directly.   This seems especially reasonable when those servers are running a year later etc. when some games are bought new.  I think though, that maybe you wouldn't need an online pass for the first 72 hours or something like that to allow friends to borrow a game and try it out.  If it's good they can buy a copy and an online pass.

But to lock out used games altogether is of course a bad move in my opinion.

[Binnatics]

I totally agree with all of you that this is a bad way of treating customers. We are treated like pirates even if we always buy our games the legal way. That's shitty. I agree with Art that this is what's going to happen anyway. It happened on a huge scale in PC land already; Steam, GfWL and maybe even more ways of validating purchases.
It is indeed a lost fight. Too bad, because it's not fair. There should be a way to, indeed, 'turn in a shitty game' if it doesn't fit your needs within 14 days or so. I would have turned in Rage and would have felt extremely relieved. That joke costed me 50 euros. Think if that, that's quite a lot of money. There's not ONE single product I can think of that you buy for that quantity of money without the ability of changing it when it doesn't fit your needs.
I call thát piracy.  >:((

[mandru]

Some kind of lemon laws applicable for buyer's remorse due to really lousy video games would force the game makers to be sure a game is going to be good before they even start developing it but then on the other hand a lot of the game market is driven by the Fan boy mentality of "Shut up and take my money.  Now!"  I compare it to Apple's profoundly committed customers who time after time buy a product and with in mere months have that product rendered obsolete due to a newer offering that out classes their purchase if only in status value of having the latest version iPad.  Or is that iPaid?   ::)

I've bought a few real stinkers.  We all have but when I've been badly stung I've always been twice as leery about ever purchasing another game from that manufacturer or something off the shelf without some sort of reliable review.

Then again I know that no matter how high the quality level of a can of caviar may be, it will never be to my taste.  So to relate that back to gaming I need to know what I want in a game, be aware of what it is I'm buying, the track history of the production company/series and the related experiences of people who's opinions I've learned to trust over time.  :-X

[PZ]

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment in this thread, and in my opinion, the only piracy exhibited in the world of gaming business is perpetrated by the software publishers.

You know how the old saying goes "one bad apple spoils the whole barrel".  Unfortunately the honest people are the ones made to suffer due to the actions of a few.  It reminds me of the packaging companies resort to these days - how many of you have purchased items and tried to get through the plastic packaging only to discover you are as likely to damage the contents as to release them.

[Binnatics]

Then again I know that no matter how high the quality level of a can of caviar may be, it will never be to my taste.  So to relate that back to gaming I need to know what I want in a game, be aware of what it is I'm buying, the track history of the production company/series and the related experiences of people who's opinions I've learned to trust over time.  :-X

That is a wise lesson that I should repeat to myself again when I'm getting excited about a game before it's released. :-X

[Fiach]

But even with regard to the hype, you can, with the best will in the world, dilligently research a game, read all the reviews and only buy highly rated games, only to discover that the reviews were purchased by the devs/publishers and you still wound up with a pig of a game...eg. Rage.

I think the games industry is its own worst enemy. They insist on releasing unfinished games, reviewers slap a 9/10 score on them and we buy them. If they were a car manufacturer and made cars that had defective components, they would be subjected to so many class action suits, they would be out of business for ever, but nope, we click Accept and therefore are subject to the game devs rules.

[spaceboy]

But the problem with returns of games is you know that many gamers, even honest ones now, would take advantage of that and breeze through a game and return it.  I really think there is enough info out there on games that we should be mostly be satisfied with our purchases, especially if you aren't sure and you wait to hear fan feedback vs. just "professional" reviews.  Of course if it is "truly" unplayable due to bugs and glitches that seems like a good reason to allow a return - but how is that even confirmed is the problem.  With all the well known problems with the PS3 version of Skyrim, neither me or my son has really encounterd any of this lag and we both (him moreso) have quite a few hours played.  I think he has over 80 hours played.

Gamers are gamers and will game the system to their benefit.

Plus, it is so subjective.  I for one know I've truly loved and cherished some games, like FUEL, that much of the gaming public panned for various reasons and it didn't do well.  I fear that if it swapped to much to a "consumer friendly" model that allowed for returns if you "didn't like" the game, it would very quickly stamp out any unique games and devs would no longer take risks on new IPs or new gameplay ideas.

So these two issues are interelated.  If gamers can't return a game they found was not to their liking or overhyped, they need the outlet to sell their game on the used market.  Yes it's not a full return, but you get something for it. And you did play some of the game, had more than likely some enjoyment, or at least lesson learned about hype, a particular developer, a type of game. 

[Fiach]

At the risk of hijacking my own thread...spaceboy, I'd forgotten how much you liked Skyrim, I would suggest you try Kingdoms of Amalur, there is a demo available on PSN, its a pretty sweet game :

http://ie.pc.ign.com/articles/121/1218160p1.html

[spaceboy]

Thanks for the tip Fiach - I've been eyeing that actually, but holding off for now.  I meant to post a note on your thread on that game.  My gaming time seems so restricted lately and with all I have already I'm seeing if I might pick that up later on for cheap and when there's a lull.  Heck I have Oblivion sitting there untouched (by me) at home.  I'll pick up this thought on your other thread...

[mandru]

spaceboy you do hit the nail on the head with a few very valid points.  :-X

Where you were speaking of the enjoyment of a game being highly subjective I'm reminded of about the 90% of the traffic on the UBI forums kicking the snot out of FC2 which happened to be a game that I was thrilled to be playing. 

When I bought my computer it came with two free games.  One was the newly released Halo2 and the other was FC2.  I was more familiar with all the buzz about the Halo series so I tried to load it first and it threw my computer into a BSoD that with my level of tech skills cost me over an hour of sweat and tears to ferret back out out of my system.  I still don't know if the hack job that product tried to pull on me has components drilled down into my registry like hookworms awaiting their chance to strike again.  That Halo2 disk became a coaster on my desk top for almost a year as a reminder.  I suspect that Texans are more likely to forget the Alamo.

Sometimes free is worth a whole lot less than what you paid for it and sometimes you really luck out.  FC2 I loaded a week or so later on a whim with crossed fingers and never regretted it.

It was long after the release and only after reviewing all the posts here on OWG for AC2 (admittedly PZ's comment "AC2 is my new FC2" carried a lot of weight for me) before I made a good choice in purchasing it.  My experience from long play in that game paved the way for me to become excited enough to jump in line for the pre-release of AC:R for PC but only after closely following your comments and the resulting discussion about its earlier release on console.   :-X

[PZ]

...  I suspect that Texans are more likely to forget the Alamo...

:-X

[Art Blade]

 :-D :-X

[fragger]

 

Actually, I'm really glad I read those remarks about Halo2. I've got a copy of that and I can't even remember how I came to have it (maybe some evil imp inserted it into my bookcase while I was sleeping in the hopes of scoring a few points with his infernal master) and I was actually eyeing it off as a possible diversion during this debacle I'm currently experiencing with AC2. I think maybe I'll give it a miss... thanks mandru, you may have saved my soul there, mate :)

I just remembered that I've still got Duke Nukem Forever gathering dust on the same shelf. If it turns out that Ubi forbids me from enjoying the delights of AC2 then maybe the Duke can help me vent my way over it.

Let God sort 'em out...