Hey guys, if you want to make some money or just play broker to check out the stock market thing, here's something like a little guide if you will, maybe just more like a proof of concept.
editQuote from: Art Blade on April 22, 2015, 09:04:06 PM
I just wrote two tips about doing stock market trading and story-related stock market trading.
Maybe it's something for you :) Click HERE (http://www.openworldgames.org/owg/forums/index.php?topic=3327.msg75319#msg75319) to jump right at it :-()
/editFranklin started out with $500,000 as a bonus for pre-ordering the game and I had some involuntary expenses (hospital, bail) yet didn't want to touch those 500k before the serious stock market events take place (Lester's assassination missions) so, not wanting to rob convenience stores and the likes, I decided to try my knowledge, little as it might be, on the stock market. And I had success. From then on, I tried to make more money and it has become a hobby of sorts -- every now and then, particularly when I want to purchase something, I make some money first (preferably) or after some expenses -- well, at least I get the money back.
It then occurred to me that you might be in a similar situation or just haven't yet tried but may want to. Here's how I do it, in pictures.
F's and M's bank accounts.. Before writing this post I did a short trial run with F and M and then I took screenies for the next round. You see, I had only just now played the first heist mission with a substantial payout for M and a rather small one for F but.. I had made sure F would be up to speed. :-()
[smg id=7833 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 001"]
[smg id=7834 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 002"]
Find a company with something like a week-long contraction (curve goes down) that is slowing down. Hopefully you see a decline (lowest point of the curve) marking an all-time low and that's when I bet on a starting expansion (curve goes up) because of the slowing-down contraction.
Note in the first pic how the curve has turned almost into a flat line, that's where the contraction is slowing down. And at the same time it has reached an all-time low (you can tell when looking to the right of the pic where it reads LOW = 19.51 and VALUE, which is what you can buy it for, is 19.51 too)
Alright, that is what I call bloody TEMPTING :)
[smg id=7835 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 003"]
Then you buy..
[smg id=7836 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 004"]
[smg id=7837 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 005"]
[smg id=7838 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 006"]
As you can see (you can tell by the amount of money top right) I do that with both characters (T hasn't got enough money yet to even bother).
[smg id=7839 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 007"]
[smg id=7840 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 008"]
And yes, I was right: The company is a good one, there is an expansion going on. Let's hope that it will continue.. we should wait until the stock value goes up to the last average or higher. I take a 10% win margin as something to aim for.
[smg id=7841 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 009"]
[smg id=7842 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 010"]
Sleep in between helps -- I sent F to bed for an 8-hour-nap to speed up the waiting period.
Pro tip: When you send your character to sleep, cancel the save game. It won't save but the 8 hours will pass anyway. Speeds up the whole process.
When F gets up, I check both the portfolio and the company's stock development to see whether or not we're still riding on an expansion. And yes.. we are :)
[smg id=7843 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 011"]
[smg id=7844 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 012"]
[smg id=7845 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 013"]
[smg id=7846 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 014"]
Uh-Oh. There is a contraction coming up.. let's get out of here. Note the cursor marking the slow-down of the expansion, first indicator of a contraction.
[smg id=7847 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 015"]
Yay, 10%+ return percentage, a nice profit! :-()
[smg id=7848 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 016"]
[smg id=7849 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 017"]
[smg id=7850 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 018"]
Both characters have to sell immediately.
[smg id=7851 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 019"]
[smg id=7852 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 020"]
And here the balance (note previous transactions so you can compare with the first pics)
[smg id=7853 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 021"]
[smg id=7854 type=preview align=center caption="LCN 022"]
Alright.. Made some good money in rather little time. :-D
Maybe this helps you to get started and don't forget to save BEFORE you invest your money. Only save after you have cashed out or you might regret it. Rockstar seems to have found a way to prevent you from cheating using save-games trying to get better scores on the stock market. As long as you don't reload a savegame during which you had invested, it works just fine.
Have fun :)
Very nice tip, AB +1 :-X
Thank you, PZ :)
That's a pretty cool "minigame" type thing :-X Nice one, Rockstar - and you too Art, for delving into it +1 :)
I'd recommend that you guys do Lester's assassination missions after you have completed the final heist and done the ending mission, if you don't want to mess with the stocks early in the game :)
thank you fragger :)
GKID, in the first post I specifically said, "before the serious stock market events take place (Lester's assassination missions)" which means that there will be a time after them and a lot more money involved and the subject is covered in the tips topic. This here is not a tip but an example or a tutorial that encourages people to play with the stock market and get some practice before the big money is involved.
Didn't noticed 8-X 8-X sorry mate ;) :knockout :knockout :knockout
don't worry. :)
You should try Augury Insurance. The stocks increase for that company if you damage vehicles >:D :-D
Nice tutorial on the stock market thingy Art! +1 for your effort and the clear explanation :) :-X
I wouldn't call GKID's tip that much out-of-place though... if you're new to the game, like me, it's tempting to go and do these assassination missions right away and start gambling with the money you have at that point. Probably a million or two. I did, and made some nice profits following a tutorial elsewhere on how to make the most out of it. But it's nothing compared to what I could win with the 40 million you have per character by the time you completed the story ;)
thank you, Binnatics :)
GKID, can you provide evidence? Because as far as I know it's random as in it's a myth that doing something outside the missions influences the stock market.
Actually, if you think about it, how can events that cost the company money (not talking about investments) make it more valuable? If an earthquake took out all of LS and all cars were broken so the insurance had to PAY for ALL cars, how can it improve its share value? I'd say that company is about to hit bankruptcy and worth nothing, I'd sell as soon as possible which others will do at the same time, causing a massive contraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Cqb_dhOQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Cqb_dhOQE)
This video explains some exploits you can do and you're probably right about the stocks being scripted. Some stocks may be affected bi in-game happenings ;)
I have never said anything about the stocks being scripted.
The video you posted is from September 2013.. I read that several glitches and exploits have been fixed in the meantime -- they'd be stupid to release the game for the PC without fixes some 1.5 years after exploits and such had been published. I watched basically everything on YT when the game was released for the console in 2013 and know about savegame exploits from back then and I tried to "improve" return rates without success which is nice. Hence my final words in the first post of this topic, "Rockstar seems to have found a way to prevent you from cheating using save-games." What I did is just a backup savegame in case my investment failed completely. The development of the stock you can see in the pics above was real and uninterrupted by savegame reloads. The screenshots were taken during the process, "live," so to speak.
Okay :) What I meant with the scripting is the randomness of the market (probably coded in the game). Not that you said that ;) Sorry :D Well I have unsuccesfully tried to invest in Augury Insurance (value went up, but I lost profit :'( :D but it is very nice to see that someone manages to be succesful 8) >:D Have fun :-D
Have a 1+ :-X ^-^
OK and thank you. :)
Quote from: GKID7891 on April 20, 2015, 10:57:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Cqb_dhOQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9Cqb_dhOQE)
This video explains some exploits you can do and you're probably right about the stocks being scripted. Some stocks may be affected bi in-game happenings ;)
Man, all the time this guy spent in trying to influence stock market movement :-()
I haven't even watched it because it is so outdated, but what you just said makes me grin :-() You better spend time observing the stock market and buy or sell when the time is right.. you'll make more money in less time than anyone trying stuff like blowing up vehicles in order to cause an effect on the stock market.
If you want to play it safely, save your game, invest everything in shares of a single company, observe the stock development trying to score a profit (anything between 1 and 10 percent) , sell everything and only then save again. If you can't make a profit or worse, lose your money, that's what the savegame is for, to get back to when you still had your money.
;)
Quote from: GKID7891 on April 21, 2015, 06:08:38 AMit is very nice to see that someone manages to be succesful 8)
I just wrote two tips about doing stock market trading and story-related stock market trading.
Maybe it's something for you :) Click HERE (http://www.openworldgames.org/owg/forums/index.php?topic=3327.msg75319#msg75319) to jump right at it :-()
I did those missions for the 360 two years ago ;) Apparently I have been wrong the ENTIRE time about stocks being effected by in-game events (outside the assassinations) :laugh: 8-X :D :D :angel: It is a myth :o ;) It would be cool if R* did implement a stock system which could be affected by player dictated in-game events :-()
well.. at least you can make a dollar or three using the stock market the way it actually works. ;)
:-() :-D
Here's a little story that might give you some more insight into how to do stock market trading. :)
It was basically just a silly idea. So I only took screenshots when it became obviously a proper job that I wanted to share with you.
You may know that I made over a billion dollars with both Franklin and Michael (and "only" some 890M with Trevor) by doing Lester's missions after "The Big One" although I only needed the first four (out of five) of his missions to hit the billion-dollars-mark. I then purchased everything I could with Franklin, including a 150-million-dollars golf club and a tank for 3 million dollars, and only those properties linked to specific characters with said characters -- like "Smoke on the Water" with Franklin or the cinemas with Michael. You'll see the weekly income generated by those business type of properties for Franklin and Michael in the screenshots that follow.
However, the silly idea was to get back to the billion-dollars-mark with Franklin and Michael. I had success with Franklin (just to make it easier and quicker to handle, I did the brokering with one character at the time) and I then switched to Michael. Only in his case, I had chosen a bad time for the shares I bought, they went downhill. All the way.
If you bet all your money on a single company and the share value goes down, you'll just have to sit it out. The shares will always go back up again, there is no total bankruptcy. So I watched Michael's return percentages go all the way down to minus eleven something percent. Which was like over a hundred million dollars. Gotta be patient and keep a stiff upper lip. :-D
However, Michal's downfall.. why not use it to generate some uplifting profit for Franklin? So I bought the same company's shares at $5.11 which was close to an all-time low ($5.01) with a one-billion-dollars investment. :-() When Michael got his payout from his companies, I invested that into the same shares again since now they were a bargain.
Took some bad sleeping for Michael but in the end he saw a plus one point something percent profit and of course sold all his shares. Which was enough to put him on the list of LS's billionaires again. Goal achieved. :) :-X
Then again, Michael's laughable one point something percent return was some bloody fifteen percent for Franklin! More than 150 million dollars in just one go ??? :-D
Well.. you see.. be patient and learn to read the graphs so you can predict a trend and even if you didn't predict it well enough, you can still recover. But if you really nail it, you'll make a decent profit. ;)
[smg id=7929 type=preview align=center caption="stock market story 01"]
[smg id=7930 type=preview align=center caption="stock market story 02"]
[smg id=7931 type=preview align=center caption="stock market story 03"]
[smg id=7932 type=preview align=center caption="stock market story 04"]
There is one transaction that needs explaining: I wanted to retrieve a car from the impound lot but didn't have enough money ??? :laugh: so I sold some shares. :-D
[smg id=7933 type=preview align=center caption="stock market story 05"]
Clever idea, AB :-X +1
A couple of basic questions:
- How do you get in to the stock market
- How often do you check the market to make your decisions
On the phone, go into the internet. Then click on the section called "money and services" (I think it is called something like that ????) Choose either BAWSAQ/LCN ;)
Thank you, PZ :)
GKID already said where it is, I'll show you and will answer your second question a bit more in depth. Also, this topic is specifically about the LCN.
(look at the cursor in those pics)
whip out your mobile and select that globe down centre, "internet"
[smg id=7934 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 01"]
select "Money and Services"
[smg id=7935 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 02"]
click on LCN, the singleplayer stock market which is in your game only.
[smg id=7937 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 03"]
BAWSAQ
BAWSAQ would be the community-driven stock market and is an online live stock market (if you are not connected to your real-life internet, you can't access the BAWSAQ) where players do business. Basically it is a real-time market which means it takes real time to update and to react. Also, BAWSAQ offers very small return percentages as players are very cautious.
[smg id=7938 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 08"]
click on Markets (you don't have a portfolio yet, else you want to check your portfolio)
[smg id=7939 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 04"]
sort by "average changes" (negative descending) to see where the biggest margins will be if you want to make big money. You pick those with negative values because those are the ones which are going to expand (gain value) while the ones with positive values are likely to contract (lose value)
[smg id=7940 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 05"]
Keep checking a couple of the top. Companies like Up-n-Atom, Fleeca, eCola and Cool Beans have proven to be good candidates and there are more.
[smg id=7941 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 06"]
What you DON'T want is a constantly declining graph, a constant contraction, it is likely not going to expand hence likely that you will lose your money should you invest. You're looking for something that shows movement, ups and downs. Preferably only one steep expansion with a peak followed by a steep contraction across the week AND ends in a slight expansion. Also good to know: check at which day the peak was, it is likely to repeat itself as in a weekly cycle. And then there seems to be a little more random movement around Saturday and Sunday but I think it is more important to realise around which day of the week the cycle between high and low starts and ends.
[smg id=7942 type=preview align=center caption="basics stock market 07"]
How often do I check.. first off, you should pick a character you want to do the trading with. I usually pick Franklin as I like him the most. Put him near his bed so you can put him to sleep (lol) easily -- this is to make time pass faster. Franklin sleeps 8 hours as opposed to Trevor who sleeps 12. I like the 8-hour-span to see movement. So, you place him next to the bed and send him to sleep but you DON'T save, just go back. The time will still pass as your character still goes to sleep, only like this it's faster than having to save all the time. Plus, in case you screw up badly, you can reload your old savegame when you still had your money ;)
So, I send Franklin to sleep several times hoping to see the new peak so I can sell all with a maximum profit. Every time he wakes up, I check my portfolio. Usually I am careful and check the graph whether there is still an expansion going on. As soon as a contraction starts (more precisely, it starts when the expansion slows down, the graph isn't as steep any more) I bail out (sell all) and save my money with a savegame. As a rule of thumb: You're already good if you get 2 or 3 percent return. It is very rare to see a 15% return :)
Now go back to the start of the topic and see with your new understanding of things what was going on there. It will be easier to understand now.
Good luck :-X :)
edit: had to correct BAWSAQ, with Q not C :laugh: ;)
Excellent - thanks, AB :-X ^-^
my pleasure :)
Please let me know if you pulled off something nice. It's not so much about the amount of money but the return percentage. Even if you get just only 2%, you can stack your return percentage.. five times a 2% return is a 10% return in total and even a little more as you will generate a compound interest :)
You see, I said earlier in this topic that I had made sure Franklin would be up to speed when the first heist payout was due. Franklin only received a fraction of Michael's share yet they both had over a million dollars. I had managed to double the initial $500k pre-order bonus by doing quite a few small trades which kept stacking up :)
I'll do so :-X
This is quite a list of tips we're cataloging :-X
nice, and yes, indeed :-()
By the way, I want to add a minor detail: In one of the previous posts I mentioned that you could see the income generated by business properties which is true but you don't see all of the businesses. Some of them simply don't always generate a profit and when that happens, they simply won't show on the bank statement.
Heck with it, I made Trevor a member of the Billionaires Club, too. Just three transactions and one on top to make it look better. :-D
[smg id=7944 type=preview align=center caption="T joins the B club"]
Playing as M, I purchased stock using all but $32 (only had about $7500) - it was at rock bottom prices. It almost immediately rose, but then fell again quite abruptly. Will wait to see what happens the next time I fire up the game.
If I read that right, you saved your game after investing money so I predict that you won't get any profit. Which means, you'll even lose money if my prediction is correct.
The reason why I say that is already part of this tutorial and the tips topic: Rockstar seems to have found a way to prevent savegame cheating. I'm NOT suggesting that you're cheating. I'm saying that from my observation, once you invested money in the stock market and saved the game with the money still invested, reloading that savegame causes the share value of your investment to stay below a profit line (for the other readers: we are talking exclusively about normal LCN brokering without story-driven stock events) If you're lucky, you'll see a near-zero win line and should sell all as soon as you see you're in the green. From my observation, continuing to wait for profit will even cause a massive contraction of say, 10% loss for you.
In order to make money, the best way to do it is to NOT save while you're speculating. Only after you made a profit and got the money in your bank account.
I went to the trouble of testing it again, fresh, for you guys. ;)
I'll use spoiler tags because six pictures would just inflate this topic too much at this point ;)
Spoiler
What I did in preparation: I invested money and saved immediately. I then sold everything right away and saved that. So I have two savegames at a nearly identical in-game time and day.
So I continued after selling all. Basically the same as if quitting the game and firing it up again, which would have caused to load the savegame without any money invested. Now I invested again right away and did some sleeping with my character to advance time. I ended up with a nice profit. Actually I could have chosen to sell several times during this test, with a nice 6 to 8 percent return. The next two pics show start and end of the speculation.
[smg id=7945 type=preview align=center caption="theory 01"]
[smg id=7946 type=preview align=center caption="theory 02"]
Here I went back to the savegame with money already invested. Incredible. I couldn't get any profit from it. Note the share values in pic 04, the graph shows that it stays below the lowest value of pic 03 -- below any win margin.
[smg id=7947 type=preview align=center caption="theory 03"]
[smg id=7948 type=preview align=center caption="theory 04"]
I then reloaded the savegame without money invested, basically the same situation as in the first two pics. Again, I made a solid profit of over 8%.
[smg id=7949 type=preview align=center caption="theory 05"]
[smg id=7950 type=preview align=center caption="theory 06"]
:laugh: :-X I'll need to rethink my investing strategy!
does that mean you didn't make a profit, then? As in, did I predict that correctly? :)
I don't know yet - have unfortunately not had the chance to fire up the game since I made that post :-\\
So little time these days
OK
Art..... :bow :bow :bow
:-D
You must be right, AB, I opened the game long enough to realize that I was almost at the same deficit as when I last quit the game. It will be interesting to see what happens when I next open the game.
Love those quicksaves, you will be placed exactly where you left off. 8)
PZ, hey.. this isn't about a savings bank account you wait for interests to accumulate ??? :-()
Brokering is a gamble that is all about the right timing. So generally it doesn't w@&k well "in the background" while doing other stuff, you need to actually watch and make decisions.
Seeing a deficit alone doesn't prove that the reason for the deficit is a reloaded savegame because a deficit (negative return percentage) could occur during any speculation. See the story of M's 1% and F's 15% return when they sold shares of the same company at the same time.
What is important to know is the share value you bought at, what you called "rock bottom prices." I don't expect you to have taken a screenie of the share price or the graph nor to have jotted down the actual price to see whether or not the new graph stays below the old low. However, if you want to make money with shares, you need to constantly observe the development of the shares to make decisions and to actually sell when you can secure a profit.
If you just looked at your portfolio at the start and then again at the end of your gaming session, you could basically have been in a silly situation of seeing both times the same value thinking oh, nothing has changed, while in reality in the meantime the prices could have done a whole roller coaster ride with ups and downs and you would have missed your chance of making a profit.
However, one way or another, I don't expect you to see a profit no matter what you do. If I were you I'd try to sell at a least possible deficit. Which again means that you need to observe the stock. Which you haven't, which you are likely not going to have.. and that seems to be the key, your "weak" point: you don't have time for this bullshit :laugh:
If that is so, here is some advice for free (erm, well, at least I don't charge you but hey.. you pay with your lost investment)
DON'T try brokering if you don't have time for it.
You cannot make a fortune by coincidence. ;)
It just occurred to me that here the old proverb, "TIME IS MONEY," is absolutely true :laugh:
In other words: if you haven't got time for this mini game then don't waste your precious time. If you can't make a substantial investment and turning that into a substantial profit your gaming time isn't worth the trouble. I think you should wait until you get to the end of the story line (and by then you'll have several tens of millions of dollars) and only then do the stock market gambling related to Lester's assassination missions to turn your earnings into massive profits IF you are so inclined.
Quote from: Art Blade on May 05, 2015, 04:22:25 AM
... Which you haven't, which you are likely not going to have.. and that seems to be the key, your "weak" point: you don't have time for this bullshit :laugh:
:laugh: You are correct, my friend - I am like a little kid with no ability to pay attention
you're better off robbing convenience stores and money trucks then :-()
hmmm.... yes, I think becoming a juvenile delinquent is likely more my style :-()
;D
Well, I started the game last night and the market was up a bit so I sold everything, made a little profit, and then promptly invested it all again in another low performer :laugh:
:)
Made my first foray into the stock market last night, and thanks to Dr. Art's amazing tips, made a little money.
Very little. LOL $11 or so, but hey, it worked.
I looked through the list and found one that was going down and also cheap, and the graph had just started to go up, so I bought $200 worth, as it was only $3.50 or so, it wasn't much, but it was a test for me. It went up a bit and I thought about selling, but the profit was only 2% or so, so I let it ride. It went down more. Then down more. Could have bought at a lower price, eh no big. I let it ride some more and it started to go back up. Last high point was on a Sunday (nice they have a stock market open on Sunday) so I let it ride some more. Eventually on Saturday night it seemed like it was leveling off so I sold at a bit over 5.5% profit. Since the initial investment was so small, that only turned out to be the above mentioned $11 or so, but hey, it was profit for doing nothing but sleeping and watching a graph. Plan to be a bit more aggressive tonight, and get more money into it.
But "Dr. Art's Patented Stock Market Money Making Scheme®" works like a charm! (Non-compensated endorsement)
[smg id=7973]
nice. :-D
Sounds as if you did it right despite a little bad luck with the graph going down more before going back up. And yes, it works :-()
Yeah, fooled around a bit more last night with more money. Found that waiting for a higher return percentage might not be worth the time spent, at least at low money invested levels. Might be better to take a 5% or 6% gain that comes in a shorter term and reinvest quickly to get another 5%-6% as it seems waiting for the higher returns takes a bit. The stock I was looking at last night had a high of $95 or so, but it never got above $68 while I was watching it. Since I bought at about $62 that was decent enough for me. Building up to higher investments slowly. I'll see how much I can get before I do any more missions. Though I did make some money in street races and by capping some guys in the middle of a mugging, more to invest with, lol.
I think you're doing it just right. :)
And yes.. you'll find it more fun with more money involved. It does make a difference and you know what I mean when you can say, "damn, that 1.5 return percentage is pretty much enough to buy a new yacht." :-()
Those "high" values to me are just an indicator as to how high the current value is comparing it with that high. If it is a lot below, there is a chance that you can make good money now but not if the curve isn't a curve but a constant contraction. Always go for a graph that shows expansions, too. If it is just now creating new highs, then it is likely going to drop soon but we may never know unless we watch.. with or without investing. You see, it amounts to gambling and statistics.
However, the examples given in this topic pretty much cover everything I know and you should be able to make money if you keep those tips in mind.
Yeah, that's what I've been doing, but the last few stocks I tried seemed very volatile at least at the start. Decent gain, but not too much, maybe 3%, then a steep drop to even below my buying price, then another steep gain to again maybe 2-3% and another steep drop. This might go on for a while. So I decided to just cut at the next decent gain and it seemed to go up a bit, and made around $250 or so. Then I went out and robbed a convenience store and made twice that lol
:-D
Quote from: Dweller_Benthos on May 16, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
...Then I went out and robbed a convenience store and made twice that lol
Ah, the direct approach :-()
I think that I'll always be a welfare person, depending on social services for my daily survival.
^-^
fare well, then :-D
:laugh: