Quote from: JRD on April 10, 2010, 04:13:18 PM
Spoke as a true gaming addicted ;D ;D ;D ;D
lol, you're absolutely correct!
The weather is bright, sunny, and relatively warm - unusual for this time of year ;D
One distressing thing - I just read the installation instructions and they indicate that you
must register with STEAM in order to play the game. :(
I don't know what the issues with STEAM are, but I've read that some people are unhappy with it. Anyone care to comment?
what...?! OH NO! :o :( >:( :D :D :D
That can't be true, can it?! Aargh! ARGH! ARGH!
Now I am seriously considering not to buy it.
The subject has been spread across our site, but I believe this here (http://openworldgames.org/owg/forums/index.php?topic=805.msg17427#msg17427) is the most complex and complete series of posts. Read on there.
What exactly is STEAM anyway? I'm not sure I understand why a DVD I have in my hands would require an account with STEAM. I had thought that STEAM was for purchasing and downloading games rather than having the game in DVD format
First of all, STEAM doesn't make games. They sell them. So they are an online distributor. They provide patches, forums and all that stuff but don't do anything creative. They offer old games that won't sell any more in shops, and they offer games that are exclusive, to my knowledge it started with HalfLife2. Some games are available on physical media such as DVDs but are "bundled" with (or chained to, rather) STEAM. You need to register with them in order to get their ok so you can play. It is often said that it is a means against software piracy, but I say it is a means of relieving you of ownership and rights (ie reselling a STEAM version is impossible unless you sell the PC with it), and it means less production costs (no more CDs, no shipping...) and by that the loss of jobs and reduction of products sold in shops (no more CDs and game shops will disappear). So I think it generally only serves the industry and not the customer.
One more thing.
Actually, learning about the requirement of a f@#$ING steam account really PISSES ME OFF >:( I was really angry with FC2 and their impertinent requirement of being registered and online connected to UBI while installing the game (it was mentioned on the CD package in a font size that I really could not read with bare eyes, I needed a magnifying glass, and of course I found out about it after I bought the game). Same with Assassins Creed 2, it churned my guts when I realised that you need to stay online as long as you play the game. At least it was the publisher, not some distributer, I needed to connect to. I refused to buy a few games which I would have bought otherwise, but they wanted to chain me to STEAM. I didn't allow them but had to live without the games. Now again a game with STEAM.
I have a feeling that I might abandon gaming for good if the industry goes on like that.
Well, the first thing that comes up when you start the installer is a STEAM installer. Then, once it is finished, you're prompted with a message that you need to create a STEAM account. Then you're prompted to enter the STEAM activation code. When finished, you're given the message that the game is forever more tied to your STEAM account - at least it is not tied to the PC. Only when you are finished registering and activating with STEAM does the actual installation begin.
I fully understand your position, and I'm afraid that this kind of leveraging will continue even more in the future. Registering with Windows Live is similar in FO3, but someone developed a hack that inactivated the requirement for Windows Live. Perhaps someone will do the same for JC2.
If I am not completely mistaken, the FO3 workaround did not prevent the online registration process but merely and thankfully remove the until then ever-present LIVE applet which kept popping up when pressing, say, "HOME" on the keyboard (often used on the PC console if you wanted to enter commands and then get to the start of the line, just like when composing a post here on the forum's boards).
I got carried away yesterday and I am still not happy about what I learned from you regarding yet another online registration,
especially with STEAM.
My inner conflict is to decide whether I am standing in the way of the inevitable, castigating myself by depriving myself of games I'd like to play, which means I'd have to just accept and give in and play, or if I continue to express my belief and continue demanding freedom.
I already used a comparison between the online registration (especially online distribution of software) and cars, which did not catch on with everybody. But I believe it could be compared to purchasing a car that forces you to a) buy an insurance and b) leaving you no choice as to from which insurance company. It should not be like that.
Our fellow member fragger once presented us with a statement and a rhetorical question:
Quote from: fragger on November 15, 2009, 04:26:00 AM
I know the idea is to combat piracy, but I'm not the criminal here, so why should I have to essentially pay for those that are?
Indeed the problem is that innocent, law-abiding customers such as myself (and presumably our members) have to cope with a lot of restrictions and I didn't even mention that no one knows what kind of data is being transferred during those online-registrations or, in case of AC2, during an entire session of gaming. The protection of our own personal data and security of our computers combined with the fact that we pay (at least once) for a product that doesn't w@&k. Unless someone from the outside decides so. Again fragger's statement springs to my mind:
Quote from: fragger on November 15, 2009, 04:26:00 AMI shouldn't have to be dependent on someone else's say-so as to whether I can use it or not.
If we were talking about cars, it would essentially mean that you can't start the engine unless you establish communication (like, over your mobile/cell phone) with either the manufacturer or the vendor) and a process of validation followed by an "ok, you may drive now". Ridiculous.
The simple fact that STEAM still exists and that more and more games come restricted in such ways basically tells me that everyone who objects those restrictive measures already lost the battle and will have to accept the consequences.
If it doesn't strike you, then let me ask you: If online activation, disk-less installation and all the likes didn't exist, would you seriously suggest the manufacturers finally start incorporating it? Like please, I want you to make me stay in contact with you, have you confirm that I may use what I legally bought, and only if you do will I use your product?
Well, I must admit I agree with Fiach here (http://openworldgames.org/owg/forums/index.php?topic=805.msg17427#msg17427)
I see your point Art, you find yourself forced to register after legally purchasing a game and it is probably due to an alleged "counter-piracy procedure" or a mean for developers earning more money by decreasing the cost of packaging and distribution.
But again, you know you are purchasing a license to play a game, rather than a game itself, only when getting a retail version you hold what you are paying for instead of "getting" a virtual product.
On the other side (my side of the ocean, to be precise), purchasing a game via STEAM is about the same price - provided you wait for a while or buy "old" games - as getting a game at an illegal street vendor. And considering you can get patches, DLC, support (ahem ::) ) and, most important of all, you know what you are paying for, it is sure worth it.
I remember buying a pirate game many years ago, when I was a broke student at college, getting home, all excited to start a new gaming session only to find out I got a 3rd class porn movie infested with viruses that forced me to format my HD :'(
Yes, I admit I bought pirate games a few times in the past, before having STEAM... it was like 10-15 times cheaper than an original, which only kids from rich families could buy. And the reason for that outrageous price is not a game developing company making money but rather our stupid government and their overwhelming import taxes.
Actually, if a developing company makes a nice game, they should make money out of it... that's "fair" in the western world we all live in!! So, if I can buy a legal game, a good product, for a fair price via STEAM, you bet I will, yes sir!! :-X
One other aspect I love at STEAM is that I don't need a CD and I know it's one of your main complaints regarding their system. But for me it's great that I know I can install any game I bought at STEAM wherever I am at any time withou carrying CDs or DVD swith me. Also, I know in a few years I will still be able to install a game at my PC/laptop, which wasn't the case always with my CDs/DVDs... I moved so many times in my life and I lived in places so humid and moist that I lost count of how many CDs and DVDs and whatnot I found corrupted or damaged due to weather or handling.
All my games are safe in the virtual world and will remain like that untill STEAM goes bankruptcy or the whole net is shut down by SKYNET (in that case I'll have worst problems to consider ;D ;D ;D )
But back on topic... I don't see why you should be forced to have a STEAM account, but if you do it and then play the game, that's ok... they are hooking you to their system in the end (and I agree that being forced to that is annoying), but hey, for me it is not such a bad system... they instantly download patches, update your game and they have great weekend deals, bundles, old games only sold online and the great balck friday, when I got my onlinve FC2 version with Fortune's pack for US$ 5 and STALKER SoC and CS for US$ 7 8)
To sum it up, STEAM might be seen as an evil industry or a path to make gaming more accessible, depending on which side of the ocean or hemisphere you are. Brazilian government cannot tax what I buy online from overseas sellers, so STEAM is making me a great service by making all those games available via net. If I have to register with them first, for me it's OK. I did it and never regret it so far ;)
I see both of your points , and I agree with each. I think it unfair to force us to register on STEAM, and at first I was like you, Art - so annoyed I was instantly disappointed in the company. However, because I do not want to deprive myself of this wonderful game, I decided to go ahead with the installation anyway, and it was not too bad. STEAM installs an applet which starts your game, but there are many other features as well - I'll check them out because JRD's comments have me intrigued, and it looks like a simple system.
On a side not, I'm playing on the PC and like with the other games, it is so much easier to aim, but more difficult to drive.
PZ, I am likely to choose the between the blue and the red pill, in favour of gaming.
JRD, I see why you and people in your position (software basically unavailable made available) have every right to back up STEAM.
People in fragger's and IamVince's position (limited internet, extra payment per downloaded (mega-)byte) however would certainly prefer a solid medium such as a DVD to anything else. Just to remember the problems that may occur:
Quote from: IamVince on November 16, 2009, 12:03:02 AM
I bought this last week...spent 2 days down loading it.They sent me the wrong links ,its in Itlain.I get a email saying sorry here's the fix and the correct links.Spend the next 2 days installing the fix and transferring to steam.Try to to play it and the writing is all messed up.
I'm trying to download the correct links now(another 2 days)
My first dealings with steam...they suck
and
Quote from: fragger on November 15, 2009, 04:26:00 AM
I bought it online. It took:
8 hours to DL the main game;
4 hours to DL Episode One;
6 hours to DL Episode Two;
6 hours to DL Portal;
which used up a s**tload of my Internet DL allocation (I'm on Prepaid Wireless Broadband as I can't get DSL where I am)
Why can't they just offer
additional services such as STEAM but generally stick to what is common in other trades (physical goods)?
By the way, all that activation nonsense started with windows XP (or was it w95/98 even?) when Microsoft decided it needed an activation
either by phone (what I did)
or over the internet.
Please allow me to weigh in on this very briefly (I keep trying, but I'm not quick enough on the draw ;D)
Like PZ, I can see both sides of the argument, JRD and Art, you both make valid points. It's a knotty thing, and I guess it comes down to personal situations and, dare I say, how trusting you are. I guess what bothers me the most about the whole online rego/installation thing is that I don't know who's on the other end, or what they may possibly glean from me having opened my cyber-fly, so to speak.
I long for the days where you typed in the rego code from the jewel case and away you went. Call me hopelessly nostalgic ;D
Okay, that's it.
Btw PZ, hope you have bags of fun with the game :)
hehe fragger, I know you spent all the time composing a reply even before JRD submitted, then PZ, now me... you must have been close to hammer the screen and discard most of your initial post ;D
;D ;D Kept gettting the red line of death
this forum is alive ;D
Agree with those who have limited acces to net!
There should be an alternative. Also agree that STEAM should be an option, not a requirement. If you expect to have a system spread worldwide requiring you to use STEAM, give us at least a few transitional years making it an option and listening to the community!
I know I do lots of online shopping: I started with books, then moved to vintage football shirts (unavailable in the general market or available for high prices) and now I buy loads of stuff online: concert tickets (there's no place near my home/w@&k to purchase them, so I pay the extra fare :-\ ), lenses for my camera, quarterly bus passes, air tickets, games... heck I even buy groceries and have them delivered at my front door at a handy time slot 8)
I save lots of time doing so and am able to search for better offers of what I'm looking for. Never had any trouble with credit cards - insert "thanks god" winky here - and it feels great to have services for you available online.
One good thing is that my Firefox is loaded with all kinds of security measures, and I use Comodo firewall which requires me to scrutinize every packet of information that passes to and fro my computer. Thankfully the STEAM install did not trigger any of the usual red flags of data mining.
As to Internet purchasing, you might investigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set. For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59. That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.
Quote from: fragger on April 11, 2010, 07:52:51 AM
Btw PZ, hope you have bags of fun with the game :)
Thanks, fragger - the game is so fun that I even forgot my annoyance with the whole STEAM thing ;)
Quote from: PZ on April 11, 2010, 09:34:58 AMinvestigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set. For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59. That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.
America is one or two steps ahead of us, my bank hadn't even heard of that. I told them, "now that you have heard of it, you might want to bring it up in your next meeting and maybe you'll be ahead of your competitors" :D But they didn't really seem to understand the principles and advantages of it :D
Heh, I've just thought that they take the concept of "customer care" to a whole new level: Customers care, they don't. :P
Quote from: Art Blade on April 11, 2010, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: PZ on April 11, 2010, 09:34:58 AMinvestigate if your credit card provider allows you to generate "dummy" credit card numbers with limits that you set. For instanct, if you want to make a $59 purchase, you can run an applet that generates a dummy card number and set it's limit to $59. That way, the most you can lose is $59, and your identity can't be stolen.
America is one or two steps ahead of us, my bank hadn't even heard of that. I told them, "now that you have heard of it, you might want to bring it up in your next meeting and maybe you'll be ahead of your competitors" :D But they didn't really seem to understand the principles and advantages of it :D
Heh, I've just thought that they take the concept of "customer care" to a whole new level: Customers care, they don't. :P
I thought about checking it with my manager, but after Art's reply maybe I think I won't even bother... if they don't do it in Germany, let alone Brazil... the guy would laugh his a$$ out!!! :-\
go ahead, just ask them. Who knows, sometimes they're good for a surprise :)
Actually, I might have to check different banks here. If mine doesn't know it (or at least tell me that they don't), doesn't mean that none does.
Indeed - some of the banks here have that benefit and others do not so you never know. ;)
Back on topic, I discovered that you can turn off automatic game updates in STEAM, which is something that is not possible in other games.
This morning I downloaded the free vehicle on the PS3 that spaceboy mentioned in another thread - I first had to do a PS3 update before it would let me start, then I had to sign into the PlayStation network to gain access to the DLC.
When I started the PC version today, I noticed that the DLC vehicle had already been installed because of the update that I had allowed. Maybe STEAM is not so bad after all - we'll see, I guess.
Oh, there are nice features like what you described, I never said anything against those.
But there are negative features you may not have encountered and which I haven't mentioned, either. One of them is the beloved "rego code from the jewel case." How so? Well, sometimes games offer a multiplayer feature that requires you to register with the manufacturer and he wants that rego code "from the CD" which, oh dear, you never had when you purchased the game exclusively from STEAM (downloaded installation)...
Apart for weekend deals, that can be as good as 50% off on recent titles or even a great discount like in Call of Pripyat, STEAM is kind of a game manager.
You see what games you own and have installed and can change some preferences via their interface. Right click on agame at your My Games tab and check it (you already did it). Also, there's a Tools tab where you can access other features of a game. Mostly is for MP servers and all, but I have access to my map editor on OFP2, benchmark tools at FC2 and more.
They are available at the games interface too, of course, but to manage them from a single interface is cool.
IMPORTANT TIP
If you go to your bottom bar, there is a Settings icon. Click on it and go to In-game. Disable that option as it can pop in messages into your game from the online community.
When I installed Far Cry 1 I had a message from that In-Game feature asking me to join friends and play online. That message was right on top of my energy/shield/ammo bar and I couldn't see it :D
Anyway, it's a user friendly interface. :-X
@ Art... you can have it from STEAM too. Right click at a game and you get a View game CD key option ;)
Thanks for the information, guys - it is nice to have this dialog so that people can understand what they are in for.
I turned off the "in game" feature as well as the automatic game updates, and everything seems to be working fine so far :-X
By the way, I saw Hitman Blood Money for $9.99 on STEAM. :)
... and I am waiting for a good deal to get Portal 8)
tell you what, I'll give in and get that fricking JC2 game on DVD ;D
;D
Looking forward to see how you like it!!
;D
still need to install w7 in order to run the game, dual boot pc... argh :)
Quote from: Art Blade on April 11, 2010, 02:49:42 PM
tell you what, I'll give in and get that fricking JC2 game on DVD ;D
I'm glad that you've decided to do so - I think that you'll really like the game because of the way that you experimented with FC2.
EDIT: I didn't even see the tiny notice on the box that indicated that Vista was the minimum OS!
yeah, they keep doing that, don't they. Tiny little boxes with even tinier little letters... announcing IMPORTANT information... thanks to one online seller who published the requirements I already knew (and posted) about that tiny little fact.
Indeed they do - and I was even using my reading glasses. The text was so small that I might not have been able to read it even with my glasses if I didn't already know what it said.
Hey guys. I am not a Just Cause gamer... yet. Actually as I have stated elsewhere I rarely ever purchase games when they first come out, I tend to wait until they hit the bargain bin. Three years ago when I used to play that horrible online MMORGP that consumes the life blood out of a person I missed so many games that I just decided catching up was pointless, instead I'd enjoy everything a little late and with a reduced cost.
Back on topic though, I wanted to explain a bit about why STEAM being mandatory for a game is actually a good thing.
STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay. The check in does a few things.
1. It verifies that the games are in fact not hacked. This reduces online cheating.
2. The check in acts as a form of DRM. It proves that you own the license for the game content.
3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM. I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up. This is awesome for gamers.
4. The system automatically handles system requirements and patches. No more DirectX updates that you don't understand, or C++ Runtime blah blah blah... they just do it for you. Games don't require patches for fixes, they are updated through the system directly. This means you always have the updated version and don't need to research online if the developer has created new content.
5. Downloadable Content can be automated through Steam so that external site access isn't required. New levels, upgrades, etc can all be pushed or purchased without having to go to multiple vendors.
6. Games are always played through the in game interface. You can hit Shift+Tab to gain access to a web browser, CD Keys, store information, downloadable content and more without exiting the game. The new interface (beta) is improving upon this and will be have things such as a clock and better browsing.
7. Because the check in is tied to a user account, you can actually install games on as many machines as you want and play them wherever you want.
Valve has stated that if STEAM looks like it is going out of business or is in trouble, they will patch all games and offer them for download. Also, it should be noted that games can be backed up.
I do have two huge problems with STEAM.
A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account. Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared. They are on console systems.
You make good points GP... nice touch to a enlightening discussion... :-X
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay. The check in does a few things.
I didn`t know that GP... what if you don`t check in once a month?
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM. I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up. This is awesome for gamers.
It didn`t occured to me. I was thinking the other way around... big companies making more money by reducing the production costs, but now that you mention... small fish companies have their chance to get into the business, which means more option for us and more competition to shark companies ;)
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
I do have two huge problems with STEAM.
A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account. Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared. They are on console systems.
I heard about A too... they seem to have options for you to get in touch with them if it ever happens to you but I really don`t know how they handle that kind of situation.
As for B, you can always let your kids use your account to play, provided you can be sure they are not accessing mature content or doing more purchases in your name without you knowing it, but else, I agree that you could list two or three "dependents" in your account and manage their access to some games and features (like the "purchase" button ;) )
Quote from: JRD on April 12, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
STEAM does require an online checkin once a month, but otherwise offers an Offline mode for gameplay. The check in does a few things.
I didn`t know that GP... what if you don`t check in once a month?
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555
The 30 days thing used to be true, I'm not sure if it still exists, it might not anymore. I'll have to dig and see if I can find more details. From what I can tell, as long as you login one time and run the game, you can then keep it in offline mode indefinitely.
Quote from: JRD on April 12, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
3. You never need physical media, so you reduce the cost of the game to the developer should you choose to purchase through STEAM. I have seen a huge increase in indie games that get pushed out and new developers are popping up. This is awesome for gamers.
It didn`t occured to me. I was thinking the other way around... big companies making more money by reducing the production costs, but now that you mention... small fish companies have their chance to get into the business, which means more option for us and more competition to shark companies ;)
I have purchased a few AWESOME games because of this.
- Braid (http://store.steampowered.com/app/26800/)
- Defense Grid: The Awakening (http://store.steampowered.com/app/18500/)
- Torchlight (http://store.steampowered.com/app/41500/)
- Plants vs. Zombies (http://store.steampowered.com/app/3590/)
- Trine (http://store.steampowered.com/app/35700/)
Quote from: JRD on April 12, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
Quote from: GPFontaine on April 12, 2010, 07:04:56 AM
I do have two huge problems with STEAM.
A. If your account is hacked or blacklisted, they are very hard to deal with to fix the problem
B. Your purchases are only for your account. Personally I feel that if you are married or have direct dependents, video games should be able to be shared. They are on console systems.
I heard about A too... they seem to have options for you to get in touch with them if it ever happens to you but I really don`t know how they handle that kind of situation.
As for B, you can always let your kids use your account to play, provided you can be sure they are not accessing mature content or doing more purchases in your name without you knowing it, but else, I agree that you could list two or three "dependents" in your account and manage their access to some games and features (like the "purchase" button ;) )
Reclaiming a Hijacked Steam Account:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=2347-QDFN-4366
I am guessing that Steam will never fix the dependents issue. It should be pretty cut and dry, if you file taxes together, you can share games.
Very valuable explanation GP - thanks for the detailed post :-X
yes, thanks GP :) Also, thanks to JRD and GP for the exchange of thoughts. :-X
I always use offline mode unless, of course, I'm downloading a game :P
Eventually I fire STEAM while online so it can download patches and updates.
By the way, I just played a bit of Burnout Paradise while connected, a game I didn't play for months (maybe since october or november 2009) and absolutely nothing changed or appeared to me to remind me of that once a month thing (which I found a relif, actually ::) ), so I guess this 30 days thing either never existed or is gone for good now.
My STEAM shows 11 titles I purchased, so imagine if, once a month, I had to fire those games... what a pain in the butt :-\
As far as I know, once you purchase a game via STEAM, its yours to do as you like as long as you respect the license agreement, which is pretty much the same as in any other game/software you buy.
And I will sure look carefully into those titles you posted... very intersting ideed... cheers mate. :-X
Because I don't play Just Cause 2, I didn't realize that there was just a patch pushed as of only four days ago.
Steam automatically pushes the patch along with some free bonus downloadable content (DLC).
http://store.steampowered.com/news/3679/
I see STEAM as almost the PC version of the XBox Live experience (can't comment on PlayStation Network but I'm sure it's similar). Access to downloadable games and demos, patches are automatically pushed, communicating with friends while playing, consistent interface, etc. They occasionally run free weekends where you can download and play the latest multiplayer titles for free for the whole weekend.
JRD has pointed out some of the benefits of STEAM. I would also include the fact that you can integrate games not sold through STEAM into the interface, which means not needing the physical CD/DVD to run it. I added Thief:Deadly Shadows to STEAM which meant that in future all I needed to do was open STEAM and run the game from there.
The only problem for me is that my PC, from a gaming perspective, takes second place to the Xbox 360. With Fuel, FC2, JC2, Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the rest battling for attention on my console then STEAM gets little of my business now, although I do think it's a GOOD THING.
Quote from: batdog on April 13, 2010, 05:09:36 AMThe only problem for me is that my PC, from a gaming perspective, takes second place to the Xbox 360. With Fuel, FC2, JC2, Battlefield Bad Company 2 and the rest battling for attention on my console then STEAM gets little of my business now, although I do think it's a GOOD THING.
More than any reason, this is why STEAM is so important. Windows and OS X have done a terrible job at collecting games and making them run in a consistent centralized way. People have left the platform in favor of consoles due to the ease of use and growing number of media features. STEAM is trying to bring back PC gaming and not let it die off just because GameStop makes more cash by pushing XBOX 360 titles.
My short experience with STEAM confirms your comments, GP and batdog - however, it is even easier for me to use on the PC rather than the PlayStation network on my console - functions are very similar but somehow it is just orders of magnitude faster on STEAM.
I noticed a feature that was disabled by default - something about wanting to test out new games. When I activated the feature, STEAM updated itself and the interface looks way cool - don't know what the function is yet though - have not investigated.
Guess they'll make some demos and betas available for you to install via your interface.
I may be wrong though!
That's what it sounds like - they had a couple in my list that I don't have, yet STEAM was making available to me to play.
We have a new contribution in another topic, so by quoting it here we may continue the discussion... ;)
Quote from: B33 ENN on May 01, 2010, 02:56:17 PM
Steam
I remember my first experience with Steam a couple of years ago. I bought a copy of GTR: Evolution in a shop and when I tried to install it, it gave two options: Single Player (no need for Steam activation) and the Multiplayer with Steam install. I had never heard of Steam so avoided it. For some reason, the standalone didn't install or activate right so I did the Steam version that also istalled that application. You had to make an account to activate, which I didn't like, but did anyway... Must have played a few times and then moved on.
Roll forward a few years, and I forgot about Steam. Got a copy of DiRT2 with graphics card, and you needed Steam to download and activate. Didn't like the idea, but did it anyway. Had to make an account, but had forgotten I had an old one. Then when trying to re-install GTR:E that I had to activate. I figured I'd add it to my new account with DiRT2. That's when I hit an issue...
Steam said the game had already been activated on a different account and I couldn't do it. Realising I about my previous history with Steam, I tried to remember my old account info and eventually figured it out. Logged in and yep, there GTR:E was, still registered.
1. I didn't want two accounts so I investigated having them merged or one deleted and the game transfered... But from my efforts I found out Steam under no circumstances allows that! So logically, I realised that I couldn't really ever sell on a Steam activated game to anyone else! Further reading showed it's also against the rules to pass your Steam account on to another user etc... etc...
2. I had been planning to buy many games through it, but decided this lack of flexibility was a bad sign and uninstalled Steam... Which of course wiped DiRT2, as I also found out games installed under Steam are installed within it's own folder structure! I'm sure that's convenient for many, but I like to have that custom option of choosing the install location myself. (I'm weird about organising my HDD.)
Both these reasons were good enough to prefer buying my games from normal retailers, so I then played around and managed to backup DiRT2 install folder from under the SteamApps\Common (as I remember) directory and stick it under my own Codemasters one in my game installs folder.... And it works, but it's just not "installed" in the Windows registry or listed in the Control Panel>Programs & Features applet.
However, it probably works because it was activated under Steam. Issue is if I bought anymore Valve software, I'd have to do the same. Hopefully not for other games I buy retail.
I have gone on a bit, but I really think this activation stuff and these new online distribution things are making life more complicated for users, not to mention creating more avenues for bugs.
It would have been better if Steam did it like Stardock's Impulse and let you install the app whereever the hell you like, and then remove Impulse if you don't like it, or keep it for auto updates or new purchases.
Now I think Microsoft is joining in the fun too, which means MS games available through Steam need you to activate on both or you get no game saves! LOL
I like to keep my PC software to a minimum and prefer to organise things my own way, so I will keep trying to avoid this new trend and keep buying retail as I also like to have my own physical copy for cherished games.
Very interesting read and basically expressing just the same ideas, feelings and worries that I have got. I too like to organise my HD and almost always use my very own structure as where to install software.
Quote from: B33 ENN on May 01, 2010, 02:56:17 PM
I like to keep my PC software to a minimum and prefer to organise things my own way, so I will keep trying to avoid this new trend and keep buying retail as I also like to have my own physical copy for cherished games.
Look out though, Nick! Even buying a game from a store won't mean that you can avoid online activation, or dealing with vendors like Steam.
I purchased Modern Warfare 2 in a store a while back. When I tried to install it, a message appeared telling me that I had to access my Steam account to do so (I neglected to read the fine-print on the box...) I already had a Steam account from when I'd purchased the Half-Life games online from them some time before, so I didn't think it would be too big a deal. But when I connected to Steam, they messed with my head by telling me that the game hadn't in fact been released yet - despite the fact that there was a real, material disk in my DVD tray, with "Modern Warfare 2" printed on it, ready to launch. I had to wait a day until Steam "released" the game before I could install, register, and activate it. I do remember colouring the air somewhat at the time. I think I raved on about how I'd expect to have to activate a game online if I'd actually bought it online, but shouldn't have to do that with a store-bought one - not to mention the ludicrousness of being told in effect that even though I had a legitimately purchased, physical product, I really didn't have it until Steam said I did.
Some love Steam, some hate it, and some are ambivalent. Steam has its benefits, to be sure, but it also has some shortcomings, so I guess you have to weigh those up compared to your gaming and/or online situation. However, it looks like that's the way the market is going. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is largely a matter of opinion.
Some time ago I talked with some friends about the future of home computers and internet. My prediction is that we will end up with a visual device (monitor, HUD or some such) and an input device (keyboard or whatever). No more hardware. No CPU, GPU or HD. That stuff will be somewhere out there in a big company and all we do is connect our home with their "products."
There are already the basic structures and applications available. Google company is just one of the early precursors, their many apps that allow shared group w@&k and storage of files, then Steam with your games in their hands, go some place and download it (again)... it will be easier to just connect, not download any more... Companies will get and care for and about our personal data. Kind of "1984" big brother. The world wants to be connected and the internet is the present structure, but we are limited by hardware we need to purchase and that is either stationary (desk top) or mobile (net top, lap top, cell phone). To make things easier, companies will try to reduce you to a mere user, and in the end just give you an interface.
The good old times and the old world of physical media are crumbling and tumbling down.
That's actually a pretty scary scenario. Scary because it's certainly not outside the bounds of plausibility.
Quote from: Art Blade on May 02, 2010, 04:12:35 AM
... To make things easier, companies will try to reduce you to a mere user, and in the end just give you an interface.
Reminds me of the old "dumb terminals" that connected the user to a mainframe.- I guess we're coming full circle with that idea.
Hey chaps!
Well, I've never been anti-progress, even when at times I know it's meant losing a way of life I was accustomed and happy with, as long as it is progress.
Steam, and such like, offer a lot of convenience and features that makes online distribution a good idea. I was very attracted by the fact that I don't need to travel to one of very few street outlets left that might stock the PC games I want; or order from an online retailer, pay extra for delivery as well as wait for it to arrive...
I think Valve was the first to innovate in this direction, and is still the numero uno player. Microsoft is doing what it always does, like with Internet Explorer years ago in the "browser wars" and trying to hardwire it to the OS to win market share. I think that's Games for Windows Live? I like their idea less as rather than integrating it to your standard MSN passport/email account, it seems to be another applet that installs on the PC and looks almost exactly like Live Messenger... ::) Of course, the Games Explorer in Vista and 7 that is meanto to basically organise your games isn't properly followed by many developers so it never works right anyway, leading to more disorganisation on your PC.
This is why I prefer to organise my PC the way I like. Some time ago, I remember trying to get WindowBlinds software from Stardock. It seemed to do a Steam type thing and install Impulse applet, which is their equivalent to Steam.
Well, I still have it on my PC today even though I have not bought anything else from them. Why?
1. Impuse allows the software installer to w@&k like any standalone, you can choose the Express or Custom, and install where you want.
2. If you uninstall Impulse, it does not remove your software, or invalidate the license.
3. If you keep Impulse, you can select off-line mode and never run it again.
4. If you run Impulse yourself, or on auto, it will offer to update your software when new patches or new .exe are available.
The Impulse and Steam applets are laid out virtually identically, but the colours and styling is unique. They may even be made by the same software company for these online distributors.
If Steam would:
a) allow installers to w@&k same as retail DVD versions, and have control over install path
b) allow you to remove Steam without uninstalling/de-registering your downloaded games
c) not need separate Steam unique versions of patches/updates/mods and w@&k with standard developer or community releases.
d) have better customer account management for handling problems/errors
then I would probably be okay with it.
[RantMode=1]
>:( I hate they way modern developers keep trying to dumb down software and procedures assuming every PC owner can only understand "My Documents" or "My Pictures" and needs everything predetermined or they'll have a nervous breakdown. Modern OS's and software are getting more advanced and there are knowledgeable users that don't have a default system layout, and need the advanced options. That's why they had "Express" or "Custom" install in the first place. So why can't Steam offer a basic mode, and an advanced mode for managing your downloads? But I think most of all I'm unimpressed by their limited "do it our way, or it's the highway" approach to customer service. >:(
[RantMode=0]
;D
PZ, yeah... I remember those terminal times, too :D
Nick, I'm with you ;D
QuoteSteam Error
The Steam servers are currently too busy to handle your request. Please try again in a few minutes.
I keep reading that for quite some time now :D Can't install the game until Steam get their servers sorted, NICE >:(
wow, now I'm downloading an update. Currently at 4% after 10 minutes. This may take a while... and it's downloading at like 700kb/s... why did I buy that DVD again? Does "update" mean "download it all, updated?"
Wow, I'm glad that I didn't need to do that update with my slow Internet connection and all. There seems to be a difference with what you're experiencing and what happened with me - I hope you get it sorted, my friend. :-\
Cheers PZ :) yes, well...
Quote from: B33 ENN on May 02, 2010, 09:19:45 AM
If Steam would:
a) allow installers to w@&k same as retail DVD versions, and have control over install path
...
c) not need separate Steam unique versions of patches/updates/mods and w@&k with standard developer or community releases.
This is my first Steam contact. I started to install JC2, was prompted to create a Steam account and then I was allowed to revise the installation folder (c:\programs\steam\) which I changed to my game HD.
My Steam account shows CoD2ModernWarfare (not a Steam related purchase, yet it has been detected) and apparently offers an update.
20% now. At that rate I can expect the update to be finished after like ONE FRICKING HOUR. >:( >:( >:( :D
Too bad about the time involved, but I suspect that they way that the publishers are requiring automatic updates these days, you'd have had to do it even without STEAM.
As to your earlier post, I too installed in a non-default location. I typically keep my boot drive cleared of all files except those that run Windows. I even keep my swap file and all user data on a separate file - keeps Windows running fast and smooth.
I'm pretty sure I would have downloaded a patch a lot quicker if I had had the chance of doing so (using faster mirror servers). Downloading patches from within an application (games) in my experience takes longer.
more than one hour ago I was at 4%. Now I'm at 72%. I can't do anything but wait. Lucky me, I have got access to some programs installed on XP, so I can at least listen to some music while I try to be PATIENT.
OH my goodness. Done downloading, seen the game start screen!!! Going to play NOW ;D
A thrilling moment! :-X
yes, it was :-X
To be fair about Steam, the giant download might have to do with the fact that I can now play the German game in English, so probably the biggest bit was sound files (and they usually are huge). In the end I got what I had hoped for: An entire operating system and the game itself all in English :-X
Very good - but as you said, it doesn't matter now that you have it working.
By the way, did you download the free Chevalier Icebreaker?
not yet, but I will. Also, I purchased a limited editon of JC2, and there are more goodies yet to be unlocked, they gave me some code to download it. I just read that in order to get that special DLC, I need a Games for Windows Live! account (doesn't that bring back some memories...) It's called Black Market Chaos Pack. It contains Rico's Signature Gun (pistol), Bull's Eye Assault Rifle, Chevalier Classic (like some 50s car) and a Chaos Parachute (orange with a yellow skull patch across the top)
Ah yes, I remember reading about a chaos parachute and assorted other goodies. The mod guys have already improved on those as well. I didn't get a limited edition so I'm hoping that those goodies will be released in future DLC like the Templar Lairs were in AC2.
just checked, my downloaded "update" had the size of 4,022.5 MB :o ;D
Quote from: Art Blade on May 08, 2010, 10:11:37 AM
20% now. At that rate I can expect the update to be finished after like ONE FRICKING HOUR. >:( >:( >:( :D
Uh-oh...
Quote from: Art Blade on May 08, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
just checked, my downloaded "update" had the size of 4,022.5 MB :o ;D
Uh-oh...If it took you that long via your connection Art, I can expect about at least an 8 hour DL time, given my sluggish net connection. Better start it off before I go to w@&k and hope it's finished when I get home - assuming it doesn't drop out halfway through (as if).
(*sigh*)
Quote from: Art Blade on May 08, 2010, 09:11:54 PM
just checked, my downloaded "update" had the size of 4,022.5 MB :o ;D
Did you check that your DL region under "settings" "Downloads" are set to "Germany" and also taht your internetspeed is correct? Sometimes when the Steam applet is updated it get´s reverted to the default settings. Once I tried to DL an update at 5kb/s because my region had been set to US and my internetspeed to 56K because of an update :D ;D
Good tip deadman, I'll keep an eye out for that myself when the time comes (haven't got the game just yet) :-X
deadman, thanks, I did. It was set to Germany and >2Mbit.
Again, I am pretty sure that the size was only due to the fact that I started with a German version and ended up with an English version, so the huge amount of data was most certainly language sound files. And that conversion... was amazing ;D
(*sigh of relief*)
hehe :)
By the way, when I fired up the game there was an option "DLC" and it showed that ice cream truck. I clicked it but nothing happened. A little later I found out that the truck was available on the Black Market... so Steam must have slipped that one in, too. :-X
Probably came along for the ride in that mega-update you had to do ;D
I guess so ;D