OpenWorldGames Server ONE

You can sign up now. Bear in mind that this is a total commitment - you won't be coming back.

http://www.mars-one.com/ (http://www.mars-one.com/)

now I see.. well.. unless Mars blows up and comes raining down on us, it is indeed likely that you won't come back.

Or you just die getting there which also prevents you from grasping any opportunity of becoming one of future commuters. :-D

Thirty years ago I might have actually considered it. Now I've reached the age where I value my skin too much ;) And I'd want to come home if I didn't like it.

Besides, I doubt they would want to tote along a 54-year-old whose most valuable contribution to the mission would be that he wouldn't get drunk enough to accidentally open the air-lock :-\\

also, elderly men and that darn issue called "breaking wind" might push the cabin pressure control over the edge. They're absolutely forbidden to pick up stuff. Actually, they're generally forbidden to bend over in a space ship.

- "Hey, look, up there in the sky, I think I just spotted a supernova."
- "Nah.. that's.. actually.. it looks like.. NO! God damn elderly astronauts!"

 :laugh:

Hmm... I've always avoided situations where the other crewmen's glances could turn to me while panicking and looking around for heavy unnecessary things to throw overboard (jettison) in order to lighten the load during an emergency.  ???

 :-D

It would be a dicey situation, I think, regardless of the possibility of life-threatening mechanical failures, natural hazards or other physical disasters. No amount of simulation or psychological profiling here on Earth could possibly provide an accurate preview of how a small group of people would co-exist in a self-contained environment for a long period of time - that is, for life. People change over time and in a situation like that there is no way of knowing how those people would relate to each other ten or twenty or more years from the present. Humans are humans and there would be baggage other than the type you can carry being taken along with them. Personality clashes, jealousies and resentments could be catastrophic in an enclosed environment where the people simply cannot get away from each other. It's not like they could go and find other people to hang out with or seek some form of entertainment elsewhere.

I see it as being like a pressure-cooker - if the ingredients do mix well during the long bake the result may indeed be delicious, but if the balance isn't right or the wrong ingredients are introduced the result may be not only unpalatable but potentially explosive.

Reconsidering my title to this topic, those who go may be getting away from it all in one sense but in another, they could possibly be taking it all with them, and an encapsulated, escape-proof environment like that would certainly not be a good place to bring it all to.

If I feel a need to get away from it all, I think I'll stick to camping. I can come home from that if I want, or when I'm ready to.

 :laugh: @ mandru

 :-D

I've been lucky so far (from what I can gather) in that I've reached the age that I have whilst managing to avoid the dreaded getting up in the middle of the night to take a pee - I can still sleep all the way through. My time will come eventually I have no doubt, but so far I've been blessed.

Should I be a Mars colonist however and should some misguided mission planner decide that an outdoor dunny would be the most power-efficient way for the colony to dispose of its wastes, I could be in for a dubious distinction. The exasperation of having to suit up in the middle of every night to answer nature's call, and the subsequent frustration of failing to complete that task in time, would soon compel me to stop bothering and thus earn me a place in history as being Mars' first bed-wetter :-\\

there's an easy way out, fragger. Keep your bed dry and don't worry about that dreadful task -- suit up and bloody leave it on until it starts to overflow at the neck ring where the helmet connects. Only then you'll have to empty that suit and perhaps rinse it a bit inside before you start over.  :-D

 :laugh:

 :laugh: :-X

 :laugh:

The pee-walker :-D

 :laugh:

AKA "The Squelcher" :-()

that's good, "the squelcher" -- almost a tad too graphical :-()

speaking of which..

Morons From Outer Space (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWDPJymksI#ws)

 :o :laugh:

I've often wondered actually why astronauts never seem to sneeze inside their helmets. Maybe they get given some kind of sneeze-suppressant mixed in with their breathing air ????

Sneezing into your helmet would be a major bummer :-\\ I (and others) have done it inside a full-face motorcycle helmet - it's known as "instant blackout" :-() But we have the luxury of being able to swing the visor up to see until we can clear it. Bit hard to do that in an airless environment...

Sneezing in space?  In simplest terms the majority of the blast is going to stick to what ever you're aimed at when it lets fly.

Astronauts (when packed into a spacesuit) have been preconditioned in training to aim their faces anywhere but directly at the faceplate when they feel a sneeze coming on.  It's better to scrub a helmet out later than go blind in the middle of a critical EVA operation.

Zero gee doesn't give sinuses the assistance they are accustomed to for proper draining so among the crew the sound of nose blowing, sniffling and sneezing is almost a constant background noise.  If ebola was introduced aboard a space vehicle it would make the movie Alien look like a Saturday morning kiddie cartoon.  8-X

we should suggest that to the writers and producers of Alien.

[smg id=7292 align=center width=200]

Had to post again so the above pic didn't appear on the home page...

 :-D

 :laugh: :-X

Yeah I read about that Mars expedition thing as well.... I know a few people I'd like to put on the list if they can be taken without further questions asked!  ;D

I also read that life expectancy is of about 10 years only, so I wonder who could be so desperately excited to go on a one way interplanetary camping trip to maybe cut off their own life so drastically. It seems hundreds of thousands signed up and they already started calling names for interviews.

I believe it's normal to feel interested in a trip like that but to actually hop in a rocket and go? Now that seems weird! One could be just trying to escape from a hard reality here on Earth and end up incredibly disappointed on the red planet once they realize there's no way back. Like fragger said, it only takes one bad ingredient on the mix to spoil it all. One guy freaks out, kicks the door open and that's it for the rest of the crew.  ???

yep, one goes mental and suicidal and decides to make the decision for the rest as well.. "I'm done, and I'll put you out of your misery, too." <opens air lock>

Quote from: JRD on November 08, 2014, 04:26:21 AMI know a few people I'd like to put on the list

:laugh:

 :-D hehehe

I didn't know about the 10-year life expectancy, JRD. Why such a drastic reduction, I wonder?

Maybe the other colonists bump you off after ten years so you won't get old enough to start being a burden to them...

hmm.. I wonder what "retirement" looks like for the first colonists.. maybe that's why it's only 10 years life expectancy. They kill themselves. Oh, they don't have hospitals there, either..

Well, I am not 100% positive about the 10 years thing. This is just how I remember reading about it, I may be wrong.

But if I remember correctly it is because the first settlers will have to create the first basic housing structures and live the first few years on dehydrated meals, recicled water and be exposed to radiation as they build their home. Imagine not being able to feel sunlight over your skin, adapt to a different day-night cycle, not eat fresh fruits, vegetables and be 24/7 working and facing an incredibly stressful environment. It would kill you in less than 10 years even if you were on Earth!

As Art said, there's no hospitals there. I assume medical training would be required to all settlers and a couple medics would have to be there as well but with very limited supply of medicine and resources to treat any illness and injuries. What if a guy breaks a leg? Any X-ray machines there? Can someone perform basic surgery? Imagine a toothache? You can only take so many painkillers and band aids with you  ???

yep, that's a tad frightening. They'll do it wild west style when the barber was also the dentist.

Quote from: Art Blade on November 10, 2014, 09:45:07 AM
yep, that's a tad frightening. They'll do it wild west style when the barber was also the dentist.

:laugh:

You mean the butcher was also the dentist!  ???

no, the butcher was just a butcher but else, he killed people. I suppose.  :-D

Or he had the task to get rid of the bodies :-()

I think a group of people like these settlers would better become drug addicts; they would be better equipped for all the mental challenges, and thus have probably less problems dealing with any physical uncommodities at the spot. They'd even last longer I suppose, although not in a too progressive state of mind :-D

Yep, slip them some LSD and have them all tripping. "OH! Dude, this is so far out! All these COLOURS! And how beautiful everything is! I need to take a walk outside.." <opens air lock> :-()

 :laugh:

A few things about Mars that you'd have to get used to:

Duration of day: 24 hours, 37 minutes
Not much different from Earth, but enough to throw all your Earth-based timepieces out of whack. Have to come up with new ones.

Duration of year: 687 Earth days
A long time between birthdays if you're born on Mars. A twenty-year-old Martian would be equal in age to a 37yo Earthling. If you still wanted to use a 12-month calendar, each month would have to average 57 days in length.

Gravity: 0.375 Earth standard G
Over time, what would this do to muscle mass, skeletal density, blood pressure, etc.? If the colonists decided to start reproducing, would their future generations gradually get taller and skinnier?

Axial Tilt: 25°
Still have seasons, all of them long and in varying degrees of cold.

No backyard barbies
That rips it - I'm not going.

Quote from: fragger on November 11, 2014, 04:56:45 AM
No backyard barbies
That rips it - I'm not going.

:laugh:   :-X

Not to mention that if you run out of beer it may take a while till you get a refil!   :-(

That definitely rips it :-()

You know one thing I believe would be an amazing thing to take with you?

A 3D printer!

Think about it. If you need an object, either you take it with you on the ship or you're doomed... and you can not keep enough spares of everything you will need to carry for this trip.

If you need a given tool and you don't have it or if the last one just broke, Earth can just send you the file to print it in Mars. Those 3D printers can print very complex objects with connected moving parts. You could probaby print a whole engine or complex machinery for scientific analysis..

Of course, you just need a shitload of photopolymer, which is what the printers use to print stuff  :-()

life expectancy 10 years.. martian years? = 18.5 earth years. Hey, there you go. :)

Quote from: JRD on November 11, 2014, 05:08:30 AM
:laugh:   :-X

Not to mention that if you run out of beer it may take a while till you get a refil!   :-(

But you wouldn't have to worry about keeping it chilled ;)

"Alright *hip* guys, I'll put the rest of the bee..*hip* -- 'scuse me -- beer outside so it will shhhhtay chilled." <opens air lock>

 :laugh:

 :laugh:

That air lock sure gets opened a lot :-()

"Hey, I think the air lock is broken. Can someone please check it?"
"Lemme thandle this, I need some workout."
<opens air lock> *FOOMP* <airlock slams shut>
"Whoa, he left in a hurry! Bye there.. pity he didn't put on that space suit.. Right, I think it works."
"Hey! I see a guy out there waving his hands like a madman! He's right there!"
"Maybe he's trying to flank us!"
"What do we do?! What do we do?!"
"Shoot him, you goddamn idiot!"


:-()

 :) :-X

 :laugh:

Quote from: JRD on November 11, 2014, 06:40:18 AM
You know one thing I believe would be an amazing thing to take with you?

A 3D printer!  ...  Of course, you just need a shitload of photopolymer, which is what the printers use to print stuff  :-()

This has been my exact thought for the last few years.  At least ever since I saw a video demonstrating the creation of a fully functional adjustable crescent wrench printed from a computer file.  The ability to keep a complete set of data instructions for replacement parts and possible needed hand tools in memory storage without the weight of hauling along the metal stock. a foundry and mill to access them would be a tremendous asset to any long term mission.

A few additional points to consider that I've reasoned out while thinking about this important utility.

* For weightless conditions there would need to be a pseudo-gravity centrifuge to spin up the printer so that the photopolymer would stay put during its processing.  Also consider that a large enough centrifuge would allow crew members the opportunity to spend time excercising under the influence of G-forces to eliminate some of the detrimental side effects of long term weightlessness.  The rotating wings of the Russian ship in the movie 2010: Odyssey Two served as a huge centrifuge (providing almost all the comforts of Home Gee  :-() ).

* Developing a recyclable photopolymer.  Once the need for a rarely used tool or item has been met the ability to recycle it back to a raw base state would be essentially vital.  That way as a resource it can be used over and over.  It would also greatly reduce the amount of photopolymer needed for the mission.

* The electronic components for needed diagnostic tools can be stored in a much lighter and compact form than the ergonomic housings necessary to make them convenient to hold by either a spacesuit gloved or bare hand.  When a need for such equipment arises determine if it's needed inside or outside and print the enclosure required.  Then simply snap the circuits into the case, add a power supply and you're good to go.  When the job is done recycle the case and stow the components.

* And last but not least - when crewman Harris goes crazy from spacecabin fever and keeps printing up life size 3D models of his girl back home you don't have to further spend precious photopolymer resources printing up a left handed heavy spanner wrench to smash his brains out.  >:D

(Edit: Trimmed some clunky wording  :-[ )

 :laugh:

Just like you, mandru, the first thing I thought about when I first saw a YT video of a 3D printer was "how useful it is going to be if they are actually sending people to Mars".

The recyclable photopolymer and the centrifuge are also great insights from you!  :-X

I believe in the future they will be experimenting with different materials and a 3D printer will be able to print complex objects made of different polymers for even increased variability of possible printable objects. Parts that will be facing extreme heat can be printed with a heat-resistant polymer, parts that need to sustain heavy weight without deforming can be printed with resistant polymer and pieces that need to fold could be printed with flexible polymer. The Mars crew could get upgrades of nearly anything they have and even objects that eventually are invented after they depart by simply transmitting the file via radio to their base computer... even a new 3D printer v2.0  8)

3D printers are currently going in many directions.

I've seen a 3 color polymer printer that uses spooled polymer wires to create items that look better than the single color ones.  There are 3D printers that w@&k in various metals but returning molten metal in recycling to wire form for printer feed is more difficult than extruding polymer as wire or the powder some of the printers use.

I've also heard that the 3D printing of genetic DNA is not that far over the horizon.

Anyone need a crop of carrots that will attack and feed on common pests that have been the bane of farmers from the dawn of agriculture?

Quote from: mandru on November 13, 2014, 10:01:56 AM
I've also heard that the 3D printing of genetic DNA is not that far over the horizon.

Anyone need a crop of carrots that will attack and feed on common pests that have been the bane of farmers from the dawn of agriculture?

Forget about carrots... people will be printing girlfriends and trading them!  8-X

Erm, I'll take both.  :-D

You guys think it's possible to develop a 3D printer that uses clay as raw material? That could augment the possibilities immensely, since a simple baking procedure could create stuff as hard as a rock...

Centrifugal force as a form of artificial gravity would actually take a little getting used to. Because of a phenomenon known as the Coriolis Effect, you would feel a continuous pulling sensation opposite the direction of spin. It would be like your feet were continually trying to slide out from under you. The amount of Coriolis force would be determined by the combination of the size of the carousel and the speed at which it is rotating. Inside a really, really big rotating cylinder like the one in Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous With Rama (an alien construct with a diameter of about twenty kilometers) the effect would be too negligible to feel, but in a carousel the size of the one on board the Discovery in 2001: A Space Odyssey, the effect would be quite noticeable. People would get used to it after a while, but if you could see them inside the carousel they would all be leaning slightly to compensate for the Coriolis Effect. If you jumped straight up into the air, you would land in a different place from where you were before the jump. If two people are directly opposite one another in the carousel and one person tries to throw an object directly to the other person, the object will actually travel at an angle and land at a point trailing the other person in relation to the direction of spin. Interestingly, to an outside observer the object would appear to travel in a straight line, but to the two people inside the carousel it would appear to travel in a curve. Similarly, if you try to pour liquid from a bottle into a glass from a height, you would have to position the glass so that it is behind the bottle in relation to the direction of spin in order to successfully catch the liquid.

There's a cool little demo of the Coriolis Effect here:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt_XJp77-mk

There is a ride in an amusement park in Sydney called The Rotor (I'm sure this type of thing exists elsewhere in the world). It's a solid-walled cylinder in which the riders stand with their backs to the wall while it slowly spins up until a certain speed is reached, whereupon the floor moves down and leaves everybody pinned against the wall by the centrifugal force. Over the years there has been the occasional silly daredevil who will try to sit up or even stand while the ride is going, and injury sometimes results when the unexpected Coriolis Effect pulls them over and sends them tumbling back against the wall (and sometimes on top of other riders). A carousel on board a spacecraft wouldn't have to rotate as fast as the Rotor does since there's no external gravity field to overcome, but the pulling sensation would still be there, albeit greatly reduced.

Still, I don't think it would take very long to get used to.

interesting conversation, guys. Fragger, thanks for that vid about the Coriolis Effect :)

The first time I came across the term Coriolis Effect was in some game, I think CoD, when I was on a sniper mission and had to take out a target that was rather far away. The instructor mentioned all kinds of things to take into account such as wind but also the Coriolis Effect, however without explaining it. I had to look it up which back then wasn't as easy as it sounds today.  :-D That vid of yours is just brilliant showing the effect from various angles. :-X

Nice insight fragger  :-X

This effect would take some getting used to for sure bur since we already experience this sort of effect, it would be just a matter of getting used to it on a different scale (or to model the centrifuge to create an effect similar to the one we experience here on Earth)

Binn, your comment made me think of using Mar's dust to create clay. That would represent an unlimited supply of material for a Mars colony to evolve.

Come to think of all that, it is amazing how the thought of populating a new planet can create solutions for problems we face here. Using clean energy, recycling water and pretty much anything else and being able to build stuff using 3D printers and clay...... we should be focusing on doing it right here and right now instead of putting all that effort into a spceship and sending it out in the space.  ????

 :-X

Very true JRD :-X

There are already companies that are developing methods and machinery to 3D print houses and other buildings with concrete.


The need to heat clay hot enough to turn it to porcelain or ceramic might be problematic depending on energy availability and I'm not sure adobe can be squirted through a nozzle with enough accuracy to be useful.  :-\\

Mrs mandru teaches classes in the use of precious metal clay that can be molded or hand formed like any modeling clay but when it's kiln fired (depending on the variety) becomes bronze copper or 99.9 fine silver.  There's also gold clay but it's so expensive an ounce it's hardly worth buying to experiment with for jewelry making.

Any of those clays can be diluted with water into slip (that looks like thick muddy water) and can be brushed onto a surface to either coat or be built up in layers after each previous layer has completely dried.  As long as there are no points where a later layer is needed to be larger than the layer beneath it (no undercuts) it would be possible to have a printer deposit the layers but there would still be the need to fire the finished piece to harden it to the finished metal stage.

wow, that is cool, mandru, metal clay to play around with and then kiln-fire it to make it solid metal ??? :) :-X

That is cool indeed. On an aside; weightlessness would be a great advantage for 3D printers, since there would be no problem anymore creating stuff with undercuts. Every drop of material extracted from the printer would float on  its spot until being connected to the rest of the structure. 

Great bit of info mandru, nothing like that had ever occurred to me :-X Not that I w@&k with clay very much :-()