If you haven't touched FC2 (OWG going wild!)

[Art Blade]

Mandru, hilarious remark about the 3D dress  ^+-+

***

What I meant when I said I dreamt of virtual 3D was something that doesn't need to trick the eye. I was thinking neuro-transmitter, directly manipulating parts of the brain responsible for audio/visual/haptical/etc. The five senses we have need input devices such as eye, ear, nose, fingertips (skin) and tongue and then convert the information into electrical and chemical information which is then being processed by our brain. I think of something that transmits the data straight into the brain (causing an effect as if you were dreaming, when you are using all senses and think you're talking and moving but really don't flex a muscle so you won't look like a zombie and smash everything around your bed and talking gibberish stuff freaking out everyone watching you, hehe)

Stuff like in movies such as Matrix (people think they live in a city but they're only dreaming) or The 13th Floor (people of a city around 1930 who are a simulation, people of today created it and play with it.. while they too are part of a simulation..) or Tron (digitised people fight inside a computer) or Strange Days (slap on a hat and "watch" with all your senses what someone else had recorded with all his senses) or The Lawnmower Man (spending one's life inside the computer playing god, confusing virtual reality with reality).

That kind of thing. Only as a "vid" game.  :)

[PZ]

Total Recall!  :-()

[Art Blade]

haha, that too  ;D :-X

Funny, just read a couple of articles on consumer 3D in my fave tech/computer mag. Basically what I/they keep saying (summarising their previous articles) is: Wait some more, still not really worth it, too many bugs and issues, because still too young a tech branch. That regards TVs, glasses, blue-ray players and console games.

[mandru]

I get you Art.

Christopher Walken and Natalie Wood (I believe her last before her death) did a movie called Brainstorm (1983) about a researcher that a device ("the hat" that's what the movie called it) that could read brainwaves and override a viewer's awareness upon playback allowing them to be in the skin of the person who made the recording.

It was all fun and games until one of the lead researchers on the project had a heart attack and being unable to call for help donned the hat and recorded her death experience and the creator of the technology was fired and locked out of his laboratories for attempting to replay it and accidentally finding out that the company footing the bill was going behind his back and using his machine for torture and interrogation for the military.

Until we have that kind of technology our natural senses are the best neurotransmitters that we have to w@&k with.  I'm not sure that it would really be considered tricking the eye if the eyes are actually seeing something.

I used to have hairy arguments with my first wife over my love of synthesizers in music.  Her opposing position was that she only liked "real sounds", pointing out that anything that has been amplified or recorded is no longer by her definition a real sound didn't help.

Is a phone conversation any less real than a face to face conversation?  I would venture to guess only slightly, as there is some information lost by the lack of eye contact and the reading of body language.  I know that more senses that can be tied into a virtual experience make the experience more real and as mentioned by mmosu the robot performing surgery across the room can also be halfway around the world if the best surgeon for the job can't be there.

For twenty years I've had the concept for a fighter jet that would remove the physical limitations of the pilot and allow designers to build to the stress limitations of the selected materials instead.  How much wasted weight is there involved in an aircraft devoted to keeping a human alive?

I've just never been able to connect with the right eyes and ears to pass that information along through proper channels.  8-X



As for waiting a bit on the new 3D TVs, that's probably a wise choice.  Most of the blue ray players to accompany the TVs are not cross-brand compatible and almost none of the viewing glasses w@&k outside of their brand.  Even the system demo discs are useless between manufacturer's products.  Smarter to let them hash it out as in the Beta/VHS wars before jumping in.

[PZ]

...Smarter to let them hash it out as in the Beta/VHS wars before jumping in.

As a former Super Beta owner, I can vouch for that  :-X

[Art Blade]

I get you, mandru.

Just to rephrase "tricking eyes" -- I'd much rather not wear specs that blind one's eyes in turn or use specs that only w@&k in combination with a screen and all that. Just no stupid hardware. I mean, probably everyone of us had at least a toy pistol in his hand once and knows what it is and how to aim it and to pull the trigger. I think it's quite a bit to compare that with tossing your mouse around or squeezing your controller's buttons. I'd just like to do all that as you'd do it in real life (if you were able to, trained, etc) -- simply "think" my way around inside a created environment and virtually interact with it as simple as you can dream weird stuff at night or as simple as you can remember (please no jokes about bad memory now ;D ) for example your favourite holiday experience. In other words: Effortlessly using the game's environment and gimmicks and stuff, rather than dealing with stuff like specs or keyboards.

There are experiments going on where handicapped people can control a cursor with their thoughts. Looks a bit clumsy and the tech stuff looks far from elegant, but it already works: reading out the brain from the outside, if only in very limited ways (yet). Or check brain activity with magnetic resonance imaging. It is only logical that if we can read out something we're going to try to write something into it.

[eor123]

I remember "Brainstorm."  One researcher looped the tape of someone having an orgasm and took the device home with him.

They found him twitching and drooling in his bathrobe, eyes rolled back in his head -- still wearing the device.

That fellow is the Godfather and role model of video gamers, IMO.

8)

[mandru]

Yeah  eor123, some aspects of video gaming do tickle the pleasure center alright but in the movie he didn't go through withdrawals when it was taken away from him the way I do when we have a power outage or something keeps me away from my computer for too long .   ;D

Art, I'd mentioned in the introduction thread that I'm a heavy sci-fi fan and frustrated want to be writer with a chest full or storyline premises.  One idea that I've had filed away for a long time (from before cellphones) is centered around a chip that is surgically tied into the brain stem that enhances a person's ability to examine numbers, store details from situations encountered but I'd also allowed for multilevel interpersonal communication without the need for spoken word.  Think selective telepathy in a society where personal privacy is strictly enforced by law.

A simplified situation (to save OWG forum space) I had in mind from my storyline was something that contained a passage like this:

John is working on a  car's carburetor and unable to make it w@&k.  Realizing he is in over his head on both the head knowledge and the manual dexterity to accomplish the job he decides to get help. initiating action he thinks [a unique private pet name for his chip] alerting it that it is being accessed to perform a function.  It responds {Ready}  [Reach Roy]  {Connecting}

At this point Roy's chip announces {John calling, standing by}  Roy can accept, delay, deny the call or even place a ban on all future attempts of contact depending upon Roy's preferences.  Since John is a good friend and Roy currently has available time he responds to his chip [Yes]

John explains the trouble he is having and Roy agrees to take a look at it so John tells his chip [Send optical]

Roy's chip announces {Current connection - incoming optical}  [Accept] and Roy watches through John's eyes as he demonstrates the problem he is having.

"John, I think I see the problem.  Give me your hands a second and we'll get this straightened out."

"I really appreciate your help on this."  John instructs his chip to request an external manual assist with tactile information which is relayed to Roy's chip.

{Current connection - Incoming request for a manual assist with tactile information}  [Accept]  "OK, let's see what we can do here."

Very quickly Roy repairs the problem, John can see and feel what his hands are doing and though he can not interfere with their movement he is comfortable in the knowledge that the mere thought "[disconnect]" would return his hands to him.  Job done, thanks are given and received and then both of them disconnect.



In a world with the technology as I've described a lost child would always be able to call for help and the closest certified official could respond and adult connections would have greater connective abilities but the master control over any connection would have to be in the hands of the individual.

Imagine the nightmares if advertisers could get in and put product placements in your dreams.  :o

[Art Blade]

Interesting idea there, mandru :) I can see the potential (like, have D_B steer PZ to get all diamonds in FC2  :-D ) and as always: where there's light, there's shadow. I can see that technology capable of controlling a human, especially when implanted, will be the prime target for malign minds. As would prevention be the prime goal for the benign minds.

[spaceboy]

Cool idea mandru - perhaps someone wouldn't mind dialing in to me and doing my w@&k for me today...anyone?...anyone?  bah - meanies!

[PZ]

 ^+-+

[JRD]

These are cool ideas indeed mandru.. and Aldous Huxley would lift his left eyebrow to that!  :-D :-D :-D

I imagine myself thinking "should I buy this new expensive game or n... $CASH$:PURCHSED... should I have another beer or n... $CASH$:ORDERED"... and so on... my mind plays tricks on me all the time  ::)

lol@spaceboy... the only downside is that my body would have be there watching all along  :-( and by the way

Cool idea mandru - perhaps someone wouldn't mind dialing in to me and doing my w@&k for me today...anyone?...anyone?  bah - meanies!

[gmod]Watch your language[/gmod]

[PZ]

hahaha, good catch, JRD - I missed that bad language!  ^+-+

[spaceboy]

lol JRD - I'm sorry.  Don't ban me....please.  8-X

Also I too would have a hard time controlling my outgoing thoughts... if every thought I had would get sent to the object of my thought I might not have to worry about that bad language word anymore cause I'd be out of it.

[mandru]

 ;D @ spaceboy's slip but I see he's got the concept.  A bored laborer could zone out and allow a willing paraplegic or someone otherwise unable to engage in gainful employment to fill in for that activity and then split a paycheck with them.  Remote rental telepresence or basically a body for hire.

The concept as I'd posted it was just a sketch of a larger idea.  In my story premise a user would of course have established filters with their chip allowing control over outbound content during interaction with others depending on established trust levels with the receiver on the other end of the contact.  A receiver could also engage their chip's filter to screen "out of bounds" content from a less than trusted sender's contact.

It does occur to me with proper chip training, the incidental usage of that banned "w" word would easily be screened out of usage here at OWG.   ;)

[spaceboy]

  Remote rental telepresence or basically a body for hire.

hmm, you can remotely take control of someone and see and feel what you direct them to do?  So I'm thinking a nice looking couple could hire themselves out if you know what I mean.  "Remote Rental Telepresence - getting ugly people together in a beautiful way".  And safe too!

Actually now that I think of it this idea (remote control) was basically the concept in the movie Gamer.  Horrible movie for the most part, but the premise was good.  I think you'd do a better job at the script mandru.

[Art Blade]

There was a film called Xchange (with Stephen Baldwin, not so good film but cool ideas) where they did something like that: instead of travelling, they'd either use a rental body (expires after a few days) or switch bodies with other persons. The best scene was one fit-looking guy sitting behind a huge desk in an office, on the phone, looking at a fat guy on a bicycle (one of those without wheels you find in gyms), explaining something along the lines of: "That's perfect, the Xchange program. I switched bodies with my fitness trainer. He's working my body out right now, shall he do the hard w@&k, while I can go on with my business."  ^+-+

[spaceboy]

Not a bad use for the xchange program I think.  Gamer had this whole scenario where some people "rented" the use of their bodies for others to use them in a "Sims" type game - with nastiness occurring of course as well as an action shooter game where inmates were controlled by gamers in an FPS game trying to escape.  Gerard Butler no less!

Oh and also I recall a Bruce Willis movie where you controlled your own personal avatar but I don't recall much else about it.

Plus there was a little movie about controlling some blue race of people last year.  ;)

Get that script going mandru so far only James Cameron has taken the idea to commercial success - you could be next!

[JRD]

No way... I think mandru's idea is far more elaborated than what James Cameron did, which was basically Blue Pocahontas. The get-into-their-avatars thing was a silly excuse to have humans blending with those aliens.

mandru's concept, as I stated before, is more towards an Aldous Huxley or Asimov's book than to a mindless blockbuster!

Keep it up mandru and let us know when are you publishing your stories!  :-X :-X :-X

[spaceboy]

Oh I only said it was a commercial success, not a critical one in my book.  I thought it was silly they told them they were humans controlling these bodies - I thought the idea was supposed to be they didn't know

I believe mandru's idea would lead to a more developed story, - I'm sure he wouldn't mind making a few hundred million on it though  :-()

[JRD]

I know space, I was just giving my two cents on mandru's idea!  ;)

;D ;D ;D

[mandru]

There's an old wives tale about not washing a child's palms for the first year of their lives or they would never be rich.  Being a clean freak I'm pretty sure my mom thoroughly washed my hands every five minutes during that time period.  :'(

My mother never even let me touch a floor until I was 18 months old where she slipped up and left me with an aunt who had seven kids for just two hours and when mom got back I'd skipped learning to walk and had jumped straight to running.  Probably in self defense to escape the clutches of the previously mentioned seven cousins.

Sure I wouldn't mind having a few mill go through my hands...  Oh wait it probably already has.  I just couldn't get a good grip on it.    ^+-+

I have actually written a syrupy sweet book aimed at 6 to 12 year old girls and their mothers (with the actual target being the mothers and encouraging them to involve their daughters in working on arts and crafts together) but I've run into a wall on the necessary steps of first finding a good illustrator willing to w@&k for an eventual percentage and then getting a publisher to take it on.  I'm aware of the On Demand and self publishing routes available but finding one that doesn't just steal you w@&k is another whole kettle of fish.  :-\\

Sorry for dragging this thread so far off topic.  Maybe if PZ or Art want to, one of them can find a good edit point, split my divergence off and get it back on track.

[Art Blade]

No no no.

I already decided to leave it here and not to split it off.  :)

Why?

I want some of the guests to discover what we're really like.. a) here's more than FC2 and b) we like to go off topic and that is about just as interesting as the games we have here.

So this time I'll let you guys go wild, uncensored, unpunished and.. uncut  ;D

[mandru]

 ;D :-X

[spaceboy]

I agree with Art - keep this thread alive, it's awesome!!

As for the mother hover - we had that a bit here with our first and it's gotten better with the next two, but it's still pretty bad.  Here's a stock tip -  buy any company that makes hand wipes and gel cleansers - and then buy pharmaceutical companies that make the antibiotics we feed our kids.  And then buy long term care facilities.  ;D